Timing way off..help.

Electrical and Ignition

  1. Originalowner73 340duster

    Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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    After talking with a long time freind ...I think I'm ready to admit I think it had to jump the chain to get timing that off
     
  2. MoparLeo

    MoparLeo NRA PATRON LEVEL LIFE MEMBER

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    I gave you the formula to test mechanical tdc for any possibility of the timing chain jumping or the harmonic balancer slipping. This was post #7 on Sunday. I didn't see any postings that you performed the test. ?? It would confirm immediately timing chain jump. Any reason for doing all kinds of other things instead?
     
  3. Originalowner73 340duster

    Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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    I did the test I had 1.25socket on end of crank..and rotor/ reluctor moved in sync...what else could make timing so far off..with light I tried correcting with moving distributor and was able to get better revs but still way under power..just don't know what else could make timing so off..does ignition module adjust timing? Could harmonic balancer moved and that make a difference...don't know what else . Everything else checking fine multiple times..the ballist was weird it gave good reading but on very close inspection had some defective issues on back . Gave me my strong spark back..
     
  4. MoparLeo

    MoparLeo NRA PATRON LEVEL LIFE MEMBER

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    I don't know what you were testing doing that. To check for a jumped chain you need to verify that the crankshaft gear and camshaft gear are in fase with each other. You mechanically verify tdc on cylinder #1. If you don't know how I will send you a link. Then all you would have to do is look at the position of the timing mark on the harmonic balancer. Simple it is either lined up or it isn't.
     
  5. Originalowner73 340duster

    Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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    Yes I chked tdc #1 cyl..marked it with tape on screw driver..spun few times and each time was on tdc mark on balancer and piston ton tdc and rotor points to one...??
     
  6. Originalowner73 340duster

    Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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    I've got to be missing something....even messing with turning distributor it makes it run better but still lacking power
     
  7. MoparLeo

    MoparLeo NRA PATRON LEVEL LIFE MEMBER

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    Did you us a piston stop ? Or were you just rotating it the same direction and check the mark each rotation ? It will never change on a single overhead cam engine. It will change on a double overhead cam engine with a belt. They are checked differently. Just wondering, have you ever done internal engine repair, install a timing set and/or degree a cam ? If not, I can see that it would be confusing.
     
  8. Originalowner73 340duster

    Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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    I rotated both directions but only used a mark on screwdriver to see it went to same spot both ways..I know not exact but shouldn't that be enough to see if it was off?? If not do I have to make the tool??
    Maybe you could send me the other link..maybe I'm misunderstanding the correct procedure...I'm bike mechanic..but had tbi and my thought process is different...but I fight threw the frustration.lol.. thanks again for bareing with me
     
  9. MoparLeo

    MoparLeo NRA PATRON LEVEL LIFE MEMBER

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    Follow the above procedure and get a tool or make one. Just need an old sparkplug. If you make one, you break out the center porcelain and install or weld a bolt to it. It doesn't have to look pretty or buy one from AutoZone or who ever is closest to you.
    Best Top Dead Center Stop Tool Parts for Cars, Trucks & SUVs
     
  10. Originalowner73 340duster

    Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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    They have one at AutoZone for 12 bucks will pick one up tomorrow and get exactly we're I'm at...do you happen to have the depth I need? Tool looks adjustable...
     
  11. MoparLeo

    MoparLeo NRA PATRON LEVEL LIFE MEMBER

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    Doesn't matter as you are going to rotate the engine until it contacts the piston and stops. Then rotate the opposite direction until it stops. The distance half way between those 2 points will be exactly top dead center.
     
  12. Originalowner73 340duster

    Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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    Ok ..how off is acceptable..or should both be exactly on line..and if it is off than it's the jumping issues I guess
     
  13. Originalowner73 340duster

    Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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    Or twisted balance er
     
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    • MoparLeo

      MoparLeo NRA PATRON LEVEL LIFE MEMBER

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      It has to be right on the money. If it is off more than a few 16ths. either way it would be time to take off the timing cover to narrow it down to the chain or balancer. Either way you would have to fix the problem. Chain would only jump if the chain is loose or the cam gear teeth are worn down allowing the chain to slip. New timing set replacement requied. Easy, inexpensive repair. About $50. for a good quality chain/gear set. If it turns out to be the balancer, a little more expensive, around $100. for a stock type unit.
       
      Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
    • Originalowner73 340duster

      Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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      Ok just did tdc with the tool and on compression stroke number 1 on distributor..I'm about little over 1/8 th off when measured when spun around other way to stop distributor is more points to 5 .shoukd it be on 1 again??I miss wrote..when I measured both directions then folded paper it was a hair off ...sorry
       
      Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
    • Originalowner73 340duster

      Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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      I would say right at an 1/8 th off
       
    • MoparLeo

      MoparLeo NRA PATRON LEVEL LIFE MEMBER

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      One way or both ways ?
       
    • Originalowner73 340duster

      Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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      Yes that was the difference from line I made from tool making tdc mark to balance tdc line mark than spun other way and marked it then measured both lines . Folded paper and it was few hairs off from tdc mark..so I guess it was on time..but should distributor be at 1 and than 5 when I rotated??
       
    • Originalowner73 340duster

      Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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      Sorry I miss wrote..I measured rotated both ways than folded the paper and was only a hair off..so it must be on time ..but distributor was on 1 to start than one rotation and it was by 5 is that correct ..I cant find the ratio for crank to distributor turns??
       
    • Originalowner73 340duster

      Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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      So if front is in time did my oil pump gear jump..when I pulled distributor the gear looked fine in the motor
       
    • MoparLeo

      MoparLeo NRA PATRON LEVEL LIFE MEMBER

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      The gear that you see when the distributor is removed is engaged directly to the cam shaft gear. There is a hexagonal drive rod connected to the drive gear that goes down to the oil pump. It is not possible for the gear that is engaged to the camshaft to "jump". The cam would have to break. The cam turns at 1/2 the speed of the crank shaft. Firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
      MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - Chrysler Corporation Engine Firing Order Guide
      As you can see when you removed the distributor, there is just a slot that the end of the distributor fits into, just like a standard screwdriver bit. It can only go 2 ways. It can either be #1 or Between #5 & #6 with each rotation of the crank. 180 Degrees which is 1/2 of a circle 360 degrees. The rotor should line up #1 every 2 rotations of the crankshaft. To eliminate any doubt. Just remove the timing cover and start from scratch. Will probably take less time and will verify the mechanicals without any doubts.
       
      Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
    • hangn0ut

      hangn0ut Well-Known Member

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      Don't worry bout that. It's fine. Cylinder 6 is one complete turn from cylinder 1. You got 5 because going backwards you hit the stop tool before you got to 6.
       
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      • Originalowner73 340duster

        Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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        Ok so everything seems mechanical y good than..what else could I chk..I hate to rip apart for nothing especially since I just did intake gasket not long ago....damnnnnñnn
         
      • Originalowner73 340duster

        Originalowner73 340duster Well-Known Member

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        Could the module fool with the timing...??
         
      • hangn0ut

        hangn0ut Well-Known Member

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        You know your distributor might have slipped. Retarding your timing. You did put a timing light on it,right? Just checking....
         
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