Tons of black dust? Raybestos

Discussion in 'Brakes for your Classic Mopar' started by Mopar92, Mar 25, 2018.

  1. Mopar92

    Mopar92 Well-Known Member

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    Now that my Duster build is complete, I’ve been driving it a bit. Got the brake thing sorted out with the rear drums. Seems ok now. However my RockAuto Raybestsos
    SGD84M pads make tons of black dust. I’ve never seen anything like this before. At first I thought the calipers were hung on to make this much dust. You can brake pretty good and pull over and the heat is about what you’d expect. Took it for a 20 min cruise and barely even used the brakes and I’ve got black dust on the wheels. Almost no heat. You can touch the rotors. I’m thinking about switching pads. This is fairly strange. I knew going in that my body colored BlueSky wheels would see dust, but yikes. Here is a 15 min drive with almost no braking. No heat involved either side. Strange.

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  2. B'cuda

    B'cuda Well-Known Member

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    That is excessive for what you discribed. You didn't say if the rotor was turned or replaced as I suppose some break- in will create more dust. The culprit is likely pad quality though I'm not familiar with the pad you used I can say that from my own experience when it comes to the auto parts chains I'll only use ceramic pads. All the others make too much black dust.
     
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    • valiantwagonguy

      valiantwagonguy Well-Known Member

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      I've run into the same problem on my motorcycles that have disc brakes whenever I use the cheap aftermarket pads rather than the Brembo ones my Moto Guzzi and BMW call for.It's cheap lining material. The ceramic ones seem to work better.
       
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      • 1994redram

        1994redram FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        My parts store pads dusted REALLY bad when I did my disc conversion. I ended up swapping them out for for some EBC low dust pads. They're still pretty bad.
         
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        • 72bluNblu

          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          How many miles so far?

          If the pads are brand new give it a hundred miles and see if they’re still doing it. The dust during the break in period will be worse than once everything is broken in.

          Those light blue rims are going to show everything.
           
        • Mopar92

          Mopar92 Well-Known Member

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          I know the light blue will show dust but my goodness. These are Raybestos “best” pad. The rotors are brand new and finally got the machine marks mostly worn down. I’ll see what happens over the next few miles.
           
        • oi81b4uu812b4

          oi81b4uu812b4 Well-Known Member

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          EBC pads work great but they are the dirtiest pads I've ever used. And I mean dirty!
          Plus they wore out in 8 months where I can usually go 2 years with off the shelf ceramic pads.
           
        • 1969VADart

          1969VADart FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Find you a set of ceramic pads. I don't know if they make them to fit your car, but I just installed a set of Power Stop Z26 pads on my 2018 Challenger and it cut the brake dust out almost entirely. The car had Brembo pads on it from the factory and I couldn't drive the car more than twice without cleaning the brake dust off of the wheels.
           
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          • RustyRatRod

            RustyRatRod Just another dumbass. FABO Gold Member Technical Editor

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            If you have stock original rotors, they are not designed for semi metallic pads. So, some of that brake dust is metal off the rotors.
             
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            • 67Dart273

              67Dart273 Well-Known Member

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              My Dakota came with LOL "black" alloy wheels on the front, and they got worse over winter.
               
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              • AJ/FormS

                AJ/FormS 367 FormS clone 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78od 3.55s

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                I thought they were supposed to sacrifice themselves, so the rotors can last longer.lol. My original 1968 KH rotors must have nearly a quarter million miles on them.
                I'm ok with brake dust.
                I just painted my ET-II's........ semi-gloss black.
                 
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                • pishta

                  pishta I know I'm right....

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                  you could ceramic coat the rims and the dust would just wash off. Its a nano-tech coating that pretty much repels everything, even water. But some brakes are not designed for ceramics. Maybe finish RA or something? I know rust wears right off when you store it for the long haul.
                   
                • 72bluNblu

                  72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Here's a nice little break down on brake pad materials and their pro's and con's, pretty decent article actually-

                  Ceramic vs. Metallic Brake Pads | Bridgestone Tires

                  Or the reader's digest version-

                  Asbestos- Kills you.
                  Organic- Cheap, low performance, quiet, great for leisurely cruises
                  Ceramic- Expensive, moderate performance, super quiet, hard on your brake fluid and piston seals
                  Semi-Metallic- Affordable, high performance, noisy, dusty, harder on rotors than organic or ceramic

                  The faster your brakes can bring you to a stop, the faster your brake components wear out. Personally, I'd rather change rotors and pads than bodywork. If you're worried about wearing out your rotors, stop driving the car.
                   
                • oi81b4uu812b4

                  oi81b4uu812b4 Well-Known Member

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                  If you truly believe this then your car should be using EBC Reds or Yellows. There is nothing out there that stops your car better than they do. Period. There are no Semi-Metallic race pads that can even compete with the EBC Reds! Sounds like you need Yellows.

                  If you aren't running them, you're just all talk and not practicing what you preach. Since you don't mind spending money on replacing brake components, you should ditch whatever is on your car now if you aren't using EBC pads. If you are having trouble judging the stopping distances and brake fade while driving your car, EBC pads will shorten your stopping distances dramatically, fade is almost non existent. And they work great at a higher heat index so you can run them on the track, yet they work excellent at commuter driving too without having to get hot.

                  They are better than Hawk, better than those no-dust Powerstop pads, better than anything on the market for stopping power.

                  And if I'm correct, you don't mind dust? Then they are the only pads you need to be using. What's on your Duster now?
                   
                  Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
                • adriver

                  adriver Blazing Apostle

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                  20170930_113611-jpg.jpg
                   
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                  • abodyjoe

                    abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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                    I ran those ebc red pads on my mustang. Holy crap. It stopped great but my white rims always had a coating of dust on them. Man did that suck.
                     
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                    • Daves69

                      Daves69 Well-Known Member

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                      • 72bluNblu

                        72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        Your comments don't make any sense. EBC Reds are a ceramic brake pad.

                        My comments clearly favor semi-metallics for street use, and that's what I use. Plain old generic semi-metallics. Which means I'm not running EBC reds (ceramic) or yellows (aramid fiber), because I really do believe what I posted. Also, I don't know why you think the Redstuff pads are supposed to be worse for dust or rotor wear. EBC actually claims the exact opposite. Straight from EBC "Make EBC Redstuff ceramic brake pads your low-dust replacement option. Redstuff pads reduce dust approximately 80 percent compared to OEM pads—and less dust also means less rotor wear!" So, is EBC lying about the performance of the Redstuff pads? Because according to EBC my semi-metallics tear up rotors faster and make more dust.

                        I run semi-metallics because they suit what I do with my car best. Average street use with occasional hard driving. The hard driving I do is enough to fade most organic pads, but not enough to fade the semi-metallics I run and definitely not enough to need "race pads" or EBC Yellows. And the boring street driving I do the majority of the time doesn't favor race pads. Honestly, there are probably organic pads that would work better for me for most of the driving I do.

                        I take it from your comments that you've literally tested every brake pad on the market? You've personally compared all the stopping distances? Which is how you know for a fact that the EBC's are "better than anything on the market for stopping power". Do you have the test parameters you used? Year/make/model and weight of the vehicle used, speed used for the braking test, number of stops that were used to come up with the average stopping distance for each brake pad, that sort of stuff. Was your testing published anywhere? Can I see the coefficient of friction numbers for every brake pad on the market that you came up with during your testing? I'd like to know the brake temperatures for the tests as well, if that's not too much trouble.

                        Or, are EBC's just best in your opinion? Because that's not what you said. So lets see the data to prove it.
                         
                      • Tooljunkie

                        Tooljunkie King of cobble/master of the broken bolt FABO Gold Member

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                        • oi81b4uu812b4

                          oi81b4uu812b4 Well-Known Member

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                          I said you need the Yellows. Since you're so opposed to ceramic pads.

                          You're the one that made claims that you run Semi Metallic pads for their superiority! You also claimed they have better stopping power than Ceramic's, you even posted a Bridgestone Tires write up claiming it proves your point.

                          You wrote:
                          Ceramic- Expensive, moderate performance, super quiet, hard on your brake fluid and piston seals
                          Semi-Metallic- Affordable, high performance, noisy, dusty, harder on rotors than organic or ceramic

                          And followed it up with...
                          The faster your brakes can bring you to a stop, the faster your brake components wear out. Personally, I'd rather change rotors and pads than bodywork. If you're worried about wearing out your rotors, stop driving the car.

                          Nope, I am not saying EBC brake pads are inferior, for stopping power they are the best out there, if you don't mind some dust. They do exactly what you claim you like, brakes are supposed to wear out, or you'll crash your car. I would think you'd want the best pads to stop your car on the street? Most old cars get out braked by even low end new commuter cars as it is. I drive my car to work daily, hour there, hour home. I daily hit speeds of 100 mph on an 6 mile stretch of curvy road. I drive my car across state to Gingerman or a local dragway then home, then back to work the following week. EBC will stop your car in a shorter distance. Work excellent for city driving.

                          I have used EBC Reds and Yellows, Hawk, Brembo, Power Stop, Stop Tech, Akebono... EBC pads stop my cars in shorter distance than any of those. They are just that good. If you don't mind dust. You claim you don't.

                          If you are just driving around town in an old car want to keep it clean, just use a good ceramic pad. You claim that's unsafe though.
                           
                          Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
                        • 72bluNblu

                          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          So, EBC Reds stop your car in shorter distances, if you don't mind dust. So, EBC reds make a lot of dust - that's what you're saying here right?

                          Wait, now I'm confused. First you say, if I don't mind dust I should use EBC Reds. Then you say, if you're driving an old car and want to keep it clean, use a good ceramic pad. EBC Reds are ceramic pads!

                          So, which is it? Ceramic pads make a lot of dust? Or ceramic pads are good for keeping your car clean? Pretty sure they can't be both.

                          As for the rest of it-

                          I never claimed ceramic pads were unsafe. Read what I said, I never said that. I'm not sure why you insist on putting words in my mouth, because that's a couple times now you've claimed I've said things I simply didn't say.

                          I also never claimed semi-metallics were best. I actually gave a whole bunch of reasons NOT to run them. They're noisy, they're dirty, and they tear up rotors. EBC even agrees, they say their pads make less dust and prolong rotor life. That's what EBC says, not me, it is part of their marketing. I have run ceramic pads, I didn't like them. That's my own personal opinion based on how I drive my car, I'm not claiming they're better or worse. Just that I personally prefer semi-metallics, and I don't choose my pads based on dust or rotor life (because otherwise I probably wouldn't run semi-metallics).

                          You say EBC pads are the best, that's great. You claim they stop your car in a shorter distance, so, what is that distance? In feet please. With how much shorter it is than some of those other pads you listed. Thanks, that will be super helpful.

                          Um, sorry, but if you do this daily on a public road, shame on you. You're a complete moron if you actually do that, so hopefully that's just more internet bravado from you.
                           
                        • sireland67

                          sireland67 Well-Known Member

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                          My experience you have to match the pads with the rotors.
                          I used cermic pads and slotted rotors on my 2012 Challenger R/T, it stopped it alot quicker than the factory brakes.

                          Put standard rotors and ceramic brakes on my old jeep wrangler, within a few thousand miles you could not stop the jeep, it was as bad as my old willys with 9" drums all the way around.

                          The ceramic pads on the wrangler polished the rotors ultra smooth, resulting in no stopping power from the front brakes.
                           
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                          • oi81b4uu812b4

                            oi81b4uu812b4 Well-Known Member

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                            LOL, I'm a moron?
                            Coming from the guy who's never been to a race track with his car, yet lectures people on FABO about heel-toe braking and miraculous corner handling of his cobble Duster! You lecture everyone about lane splitting on your motorcycle because your a safe rider too. Good one!

                            You claim you've never had your car on a track and drive like an old lady everywhere? Where are you doing all this fancy driving at? Oh, it's in your mind, I see.

                            Fact is 72bluNblu you have never run EBC brake pads, but you will just claim you did to win an argument. You're like a 16 year old girl on here! And you did claim ceramic brakes were not as safe as your semi metallics. You claim you stop quicker with off the shelf semi-metallic pads like a newb. Um, no. You don't stop as well as an aggresive ceramic pad will stop your car. And I like your little Bridgestone write up you copied and re-posted, that they aimed at the generic consumer.

                            I think it's a joke when you argue with people on here and then claim you "Designed" your suspension. Um, no... you didn't. You just bought a bunch of parts from manufactures like Dr. Diff, SPC, QA1, Caltrac, Hotchkis, Hellwig etc.. and bolted them on. Then argue with guys that actually race like Wrack that you're right. If you actually raced your car you'd know why he wanted to perform certain mods.

                            The thing you don't get is that there are different grades of ceramic pads. Some are aggressive, some are for just every day driving. There is a big difference in features between manufacturer's and materials. One manufacture might have a low dust ceramic and it's fine for driving on a commuter car and it won't stop a car quick. Another manufacturers low dust might stop a car very quickly, and it does produce less dust than say their other ceramic pads. The dust they may produce is just a byproduct of what they are used for. Something you claim you don't mind at all! There is no grading system established for brake dust with brake manufacturer's. You seem too be to dense to understand that. But you will lecture people that you are right because your ego makes you think you know everything.

                            And if I want to hammer it on a 6 mile stretch of road it's really none oh your liberal business. You really just modified your Duster for no particular purpose other than driving like an old lady around town. Take it to the track. If you don't, your just on here bragging about what parts you've accumulated and don't really know if your car was improved by them or not.

                            Oh, I forgot, you also like to fall back on the claim that you cobbled your Duster together with they theory that your are improving it's every function. So you can drive it like my grandma stole it?

                            To me, there is nothing wrong with the OP's Raybestos pads. They produced some dust. It doesn't sound like he is driving it aggressively, he says "Just a bit". If he's just cruising around and wants to keep his wheels clean maybe he should just get some ceramic Reybestos or Wagner Thermoquiet brake pads. Oh, but you told him that's unsafe, and if he didn't like the dust he should park his car. And that's the point where you claim your such and expert "grandma driver" that cars only need semi-metallics for stopping ability. Your semi-matallics aren't as good as EBC RedStuff Ceramics.
                             
                            Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
                          • Tooljunkie

                            Tooljunkie King of cobble/master of the broken bolt FABO Gold Member

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                            Easy now, this discussion is about brake dust. You guys have a personality conflict ,take it somewhere else...
                             
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                            • abodyjoe

                              abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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                              But it was just getting good. :)
                               
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