Torque loss with a universal socket?

[Righty Tighty]

Hey all,

I know there have been theories about torque loss when using an extension on your ratchet, but how about when you're using a universal socket? I thought about this yesterday when torquing my intake down, and there were spots I couldn't get to without a universal socket. I'm not concerned about my particular situation, I feel pretty confident the bolts were torqued fairly accurately, but what about higher torque applications?

So, would there be lost torque in the moving joint of the universal socket?

 

[toolmanmike]

Probably some but not enough to make a difference. Especially not on an intake. They are pretty forgiving and extremely accurate torque isn't a concern.

 

[RedFish]

Universals loose impact effect but not so much torque. Nothing like linear twist loss in long extensions anyway.

 

[halifaxhops]

There are conversion charts out there had to follow them in the USAF. Everything adds a difference. I was the torque wrench calibration shop at the unit PMEL certified. Tons of stuff no one realizes about torque wrenches.

 

[halifaxhops]

The bible





TO 32B14-3-1-101

 

[Oldmanmopar]

I never used a torque wrench on and intake to this day. I always started in the middle and worked my way out . "Snug", "snugger", "tight", "real tight". Using what ever wrench or socket I could get on them. After heated I would go to "super tight". then "Super Duper Tight" Its all in the wrist action. you'll hear your Knuckles crack when they are good. LOL

 

[Righty Tighty]

I never used a torque wrench on and intake to this day. I always started in the middle and worked my way out . "Snug", "snugger", "tight", "real tight". Using what ever wrench or socket I could get on them. After heated I would go to "super tight". then "Super Duper Tight" Its all in the wrist action. you'll hear your Knuckles crack when they are good. LOL

Haha, I’m familiar with all those torque settings! The only reason I actually torqued the intake was because this is my first rebuild, and I’m trying to everything to spec if I can. I’m glad you mentioned going back and re-snugging after it’s been heated, that’s probably something I would’ve overlooked. Again, just a newbie thing I s’pose.

 

[Dana67Dart]

I do not believe you would add to or subtract from the length of the torque wrench by using a universal. I believe it would just reroute the force to a different plane. (sure there could be issues with twist like a straight extension) but unless you bound up the joint I dont think it would be significant.

a bigger issue IMHO would be the calibration of our wrenches

I bet if all of our torque wrenches were checked for calibration we would find then all over the place. but probable in a relatively narrow band (set to 100 but is 95 to 105)

found this... Torque Wrench Accuracy + Calibration | TEKTON® Tools

 

[67Dart273]

Surely the angle of a universal would change torque. I would guess 45* would be significant. If you have a universal you can flex 90, you get nothing "out" of it

 

[Dana67Dart]

Surely the angle of a universal would change torque

What if you had a flexible shaft that would not twist. If you put 50lb ft in you would get 50 lb ft out, just in another plane. I agree if you turn a standard u joint 90 deg you would lock it up.

The output torque of the trans goes through 2 u joints. Other than friction losses the torque in equals the torque out.

Energy is neither created or destroyed it is only converted.

 

[Bodyperson]

I never used a torque wrench on and intake to this day. I always started in the middle and worked my way out . "Snug", "snugger", "tight", "real tight". Using what ever wrench or socket I could get on them. After heated I would go to "super tight". then "Super Duper Tight" Its all in the wrist action. you'll hear your Knuckles crack when they are good. LOL

Tight is tight. Too tight is broke. lol

 

[RustyRatRod]

If it's an aluminum intake, be careful. They only require about 20 LB FT. That's "not much". I do agree with @Oldmanmopar though. I've never used a torque wrench either. Just start in the center and work your way to the outside as he described. I always use a standard length combination wrench so I don't over torque. And as he also said, come back after a heat cycle or two and re-check.

 

[Bodyperson]

If it's an aluminum intake, be careful. They only require about 20 LB FT. That's "not much". I do agree with @Oldmanmopar though. I've never used a torque wrench either. Just start in the center and work your way to the outside as he described. I always use a standard length combination wrench so I don't over torque. And as he also said, come back after a heat cycle or two and re-check.

Same with the thermostat housing. Hell....all of them for that matter.

 

[clifftt]

I always figured that an extension “absorbed” some of the torque reading. I could not get a torque wrench and socket on an intake manifold bolt, always needed an extension. So i’d Listen for the “click” then push it just a hair more....not even an eighth of an inch, just a smidge. I’ve not had any issues doing it this way.

 

[Tooljunkie]

All this new stuff,plastic intakes i use torque wrench and follow recommended sequence.
I always try to keep hardware torqued to manufacturers spec.

 

[Wheelsntires]

Haha, I’m familiar with all those torque settings! The only reason I actually torqued the intake was because this is my first rebuild, and I’m trying to everything to spec if I can. I’m glad you mentioned going back and re-snugging after it’s been heated, that’s probably something I would’ve overlooked. Again, just a newbie thing I s’pose.

Im only partucular about using torque specs when its a paying job... After so many years of doing it, you get a feel for whats right. For instance, cant remember the last time i set wheel bearings by the "procedure"!!! People freak out when they see the "torque hand" rather than torque wrench lol....

 

[Tooljunkie]

Im only partucular about using torque specs when its a paying job... After so many years of doing it, you get a feel for whats right. For instance, cant remember the last time i set wheel bearings by the "procedure"!!! People freak out when they see the "torque hand" rather than torque wrench lol....

I always set tapered wheel bearings by hand.

Front wheel drive hub nut? Always a torque wrench.

 

[famous bob]

If it's an aluminum intake, be careful. They only require about 20 LB FT. That's "not much". I do agree with @Oldmanmopar though. I've never used a torque wrench either. Just start in the center and work your way to the outside as he described. I always use a standard length combination wrench so I don't over torque. And as he also said, come back after a heat cycle or two and re-check.

I do the same thing , but throw a torque wrench on it after the final tightening , then use the box to try and equlize by feel---------and use the longest bolts that will fit w/o bottoming out /especially on alum heads.

 

[Dorian]

German torque settings for intake....


Guetentighte!