Trouble Inserting Axles

[Detroit Iron]

I only come here when I'm desperate, and...... I'M DESPERATE!

The car: 1967 Dart.

The problem: Axles still need to go in about 1/2" on each side.

Background:
This is a new build. The car had a 7 1/4 so I bought a bare housing (verified correct for an A body) and ordered up the Doctor Diff BBP axles. I have been in contact with Cass at Doctor Diff and he has been very kind in helping me sort this out. He verified the axles are the correct one's for my application.

I tried a 741 case sure grip that was actually running in another car, and a 742 case Sure Grip. Same problem with both rear ends.

I even tried BBP axles (C body units that were cut down for A body) that were in my '64 Barracuda. Still, they won't go in all the way.

So Cass said the splines on the Sure Grip may not be lined up. I've never heard of this, and don't forget, the 741 case unit came out of a running car of mine. Not saying he's incorrect.

I took one of the axles and greased the splines, then I pulled it out and could see that it goes in about an inch. Then I took that same axle and did a test fit in my extra 3rd member and it goes in about 2". So somehow these axles are not going in when going into the housing. My buddy @lilcuda suggested maybe the housing is bent. I guess it could be, but seems like one side would go in at least. Before I knew there was a problem I had cinched the bearing retainer plates down and drove the car. It actually goes down the road nice and straight.

In the video I say the axle is "seated" which is not correct. I should have said it's "bottomed out".

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks FABO community.

 

[Desoto291hemi]

Drop out the chunk and see if the axles will completely enter the housing and seat all the way .
If they do,,,it’s definitely the center section .
If they don’t,,,,it’s probably a warped housing .
If they fully enter the housing,,,you should be able to measure the amount of room between the axles before they butt together .

Good luck,,,yes you do have a serious issue and I understand your being desperate .

By the way,,,,1 inch spline engagement is not fully seated .

Tommy

 

[mbaird]

Measure the axle to confirm they are the correct length .
The housing would have to be REALLY bent for them to not go in .

 

[mbaird]

also measure the distance from perches to the housing ends . Possible you have an housing that was cut down to incorrect length.?

 

[Detroit Iron]

Drop out the chunk and see if the axles will completely enter the housing and seat all the way .
If they do,,,it’s definitely the center section .
If they don’t,,,,it’s probably a warped housing .
If they fully enter the housing,,,you should be able to measure the amount of room between the axles before they butt together .

Good luck,,,yes you do have a serious issue and I understand your being desperate .

By the way,,,,1 inch spline engagement is not fully seated .

Tommy

Good points. I had my 741 case in the car and the axles would not go in all the way. I pulled it out and test fit the axles in that same 741 case on the garage floor, and they go in all the way. This is why I'm confused all hell.

 

[Daves69]

Does your housing have axle seals?

 

[mbaird]

Does your housing have axle seals?

Oh… seals not seated all the way ?

 

[Detroit Iron]

Oh… seals not seated all the way ?

Seals are in correct. Verified

 

[mbaird]

Are those aftermarket axles ?
Maybe your differentials still have buttons in them ? Don’t recall which ones had the buttons. Although I have a few NOS ones….

 

[Detroit Iron]

Are those aftermarket axles ?
Maybe your differentials still have buttons in them ? Don’t recall which ones had the buttons. Although I have a few NOS ones….

Good point. Both these units do not use the button.

 

[Professor Fate]

Sometimes they can be stubborn. Jiggle and twist on one side with the other blocked so it can't turn. See if you can slide it in any farther. Then switch sides and do it again. Back and forth, keep at it. You're trying to align splines here.
In some ways it can be like seating a torque convertor; jiggle/twist/push, jiggle/twist/push. It'll go eventually.

 

[mbaird]

I’m sure you have tried this but did you torque the nuts in a back and forth pattern. Like you would for a wheel ?
I have had a few axles that didn’t want to line up with the splines but once they did they would go in .

 

[1WildRT]

I’m sure you have tried this but did you torque the nuts in a back and forth pattern. Like you would for a wheel ?
I have had a few axles that didn’t want to line up with the splines but once they did they would go in .

I've had a couple cars towed to my shop that people have tried these with.... On both cars the retainer plate bent.... No doubt it sometimes works... But it can also go wrong... Be careful...

As Cass mentioned there are splines on the cone and the side gears... They can get misaligned & I've had it happen on a axle that I simply took the axles out of to replace the bearings so the fact you had a enter section from a running driving car doesn't mean much....

Professor Fate's post 11 is pretty spot on.... a little force, a little patience & persistence... Sometimes putting one axle in as far as it goes then locking that axle when forcing the other axle to turn causing the S/G to slip while pushing in on the axle solves the problem...

There have been a few that I pulled the center section out & disassembled the S/G to allow the tension to be released so the gear/cone could align....

 

[George Jets]

Upon assembly you want to insert both axles into the sure grip assembly to line up the side gear splines to the axle shaft splines, then final tighten down the 2 halves of the suregrip housing to hold everything in place for alignment.

Pull the axels out and put the Chunk into the 8 3/4 housing, then slip in the axles for final assembly.

☆☆☆☆☆

 

[Detroit Iron]

Drop out the chunk and see if the axles will completely enter the housing and seat all the way .
If they do,,,it’s definitely the center section .
If they don’t,,,,it’s probably a warped housing .
If they fully enter the housing,,,you should be able to measure the amount of room between the axles before they butt together .

Good luck,,,yes you do have a serious issue and I understand your being desperate .

By the way,,,,1 inch spline engagement is not fully seated .

Tommy

I've had a couple cars towed to my shop that people have tried these with.... On both cars the retainer plate bent.... No doubt it sometimes works... But it can also go wrong... Be careful...

As Cass mentioned there are splines on the cone and the side gears... They can get misaligned & I've had it happen on a axle that I simply took the axles out of to replace the bearings so the fact you had a enter section from a running driving car doesn't mean much....

Professor Fate's post 11 is pretty spot on.... a little force, a little patience & persistence... Sometimes putting one axle in as far as it goes then locking that axle when forcing the other axle to turn causing the S/G to slip while pushing in on the axle solves the problem...

There have been a few that I pulled the center section out & disassembled the S/G to allow the tension to be released so the gear/cone could align....

I totally agree with @1WildRT that you don't want to suck the axle in with the bearing retainer. If the axle doesn't "thunk" in with minimal pressure, then something's wrong.

I'm thinking I'm going to need to pull the 3rd member/chunk etc and loosen the spool bolts and align the splines. Ugh. Wish I could have done this ONE time.

 

[George Jets]

This video shows how to line up the axle splines to the inner side gear and inner cone splines on the Cone Style differentials.



Good Luck


☆☆☆☆☆

 

[1WildRT]

This video shows how to line up the axle splines to the inner side gear and inner cone splines on the Cone Style differentials.



Good Luck


☆☆☆☆☆

Well... That shows the problem much better than I could explain it... And his Lincoln locker is a perfect fix for his worn out cone style S/G...

 

[George Jets]

Pictures to go with Cone Style assembly. Insert axle into cone diff housing and install splined cone then splined side gear. Etc, Etc...

Need to get the cone and side gear splines lined up for sure.


☆☆☆☆☆

 

[john-9]

if you have a stock A-body axle housing the width should be 52-5/8 inches from axle housing flange to axle housing flange , stock axles are 27-3/4 inches long , and the inner axle seal if seated all the way to the stop should be 1.675-1.700 inches from the face of the seal to the outer edge of the housing flange.
verify your housing width ,, axle shaft length and the seal depth.

 

[RustyRatRod]

See posts #14 and #16. As usual, our friend Casey is a huge help with lots of good pictures. That's very like the issue. The splines are out of alignment.

 

[Heywodja]

I had this problem on my E body.. I jacked the car up and put a block under a tire on one side and lowed the car down so the tire sat down on the block which prevented it from spinning. I then went to the other side and and slowly spun/jiggled the new axle I was installing until I felt it engage,I used small piece of a 2x4 against the axle and a couple of raps from a small sledge hammer and the axle went home..

 

[OttawaCharger]

I'm with HeyWodja - I had to persuade my driver's side axle with a 2x4 and hammer. I'm not proud of it but it worked.

 

[matthon]

No need to pull stuff apart.
Remove the wheel. Put a few lug nuts on, hold a pry bar between, tap the end of the axle with your hand as you turn the pry bar.
Done.

 

[Detroit Iron]

No need to pull stuff apart.
Remove the wheel. Put a few lug nuts on, hold a pry bar between, tap the end of the axle with your hand as you turn the pry bar.
Done.

I got the axles in using this method.

 

[Detroit Iron]

@lilcuda came by last night, aaaaannnnnnndddd.... the axles went in with the pry bar method.

I have been wrenching on Mopars since 1992. I've swapped many MANY center sections and have never encountered this. I guess I got lucky. But, I learned something in going through all of this, so that's good.

Thanks for all the input! And one more time thanks to Cass at Doctor Diff for working with me on this too.