TRW ps pump question

Discussion in 'Suspension, Steering and Chassis' started by 4spdragtop, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. 4spdragtop

    4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Hi all, got my TRW ps pump apart and noticed a difference in the kit vs what was there. The reservoir only has one bolt to mount it and there was no gasket. Kit came with gasket but has 2 holes for 2 mount bolts and mine only has one. Should I install gasket anyway or leave off? Worried about it tearing and facking the pump.
    Thanks all

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  2. 4spdragtop

    4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Crickets.....
     
  3. Murray

    Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Have never seen a gasket used, usually a single square "o" ring seals it. I believe that one of the differences between a TRW and a Federal pump is the single mounting bolt in the back of the pump, they are in different places. Your mounting bracket may be able to accept both pumps but in practice you will only use one bolt depending on your pump. To seal the can , you should only need two seals- that small square one for the rear bolt and the large "O" ring at the front of the can.
     
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    • 4spdragtop

      4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      Thanks Murray, in the kit they gave me 2 rear o-rings (large front one as well) and there actually is a 2nd bolt hole in the body of the pump. Just not in can. I looked at Federal pumps(google) and they only have 1 rear hole as well. But like you said different location.
      I'll assemble it without gasket.
      Thanks Murray
      Steve
       
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      • 4spdragtop

        4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Ok another question. Belt jumps around quite a bit. It was pretty good before. I see when I rev it up the pulley and shaft are moving out a " bit".
        Suggestions?
        Thanks.
         
      • 4spdragtop

        4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Heres pics of "leftovers" from kit. I didn't do a full teardown and press everything apart. Leftovers in kit have 2 bearings. I was hoping to not strip it right down.
        I wonder if I press the pulley just a little beyond end of shaft?

        20180804_214602.jpg
         
      • 4spdragtop

        4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Fuck, crickets are taking over.
         
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        • Murray

          Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          This is a new one to me. There can be issues related to the front pulley related to how the pulley is installed after rebuild. Did you remove the pulley? Does the pump shaft have a threaded hole in it, or not? I have heard of issues when pressing the pulley back on and not supporting the back of the shaft. Good luck.
           
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          • Murray

            Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            By the way, the engine looks great!
             
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            • pishta

              pishta I know I'm right....

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              Id wager the front pulley is bent. Not a wobble bend but a bend in the front lip. If bent, it will alter the depth of the belt and make it jump. Probably bent in a tad.
               
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              • Murray

                Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                By the way, new pulleys are available. See your local rebuilder.
                 
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                • 4spdragtop

                  4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Thanks for reply guys. Pulley was removed with puller. No threads on shaft. Pressed back on easy enough(didnt support back end of shaft) I never thought to check end play or measure prior to removal. So I can't say whether the endplay I have now is new or not? I'll chk pulley out for bends, but i sandblasted and painted. I'm sure i would have noticed.
                  The damned adjuster bolt has been leaking a bit too so everytime I loosen it it gets worse lol. Moparfest in 2 weeks, which is 3 1/2 hr tour, dont trust it that far.
                  Thanks guys
                   
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                  • Dicer

                    Dicer Well-Known Member

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                    I will throw a few thoughts in to it. If you sandblasted and painted the pulley, the belt may not slip into the groove as well...fresh paint and all. I try to install the belt (used) in the same direction as I remove it from the component, serpentine belts as well. The belts usually don't wear evenly across the width and may try to run up the edge of the pulley.
                     
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                    • 4spdragtop

                      4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      Pulley checks out fine. Nothing out of the ordinary for 50 yr old part. No wobble(noticeable)
                      Thanks.
                       
                    • Murray

                      Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      I hate to bring it up, but if you pressed the pulley back on without supporting the back of the shaft, there might now be an issue in the pump. Sorry.
                       
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                      • pishta

                        pishta I know I'm right....

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                        OK, now that I lost the first bet, Double or nothing? Pulley is on too far and now the belt is hitting the other belt or the tension is too little. Im out of money anyway......
                         
                      • 4spdragtop

                        4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        Hot as Satans balls here lately. I'll pull the pump today and see what I can come up with. Grab a new belt as well.
                        Thanks all.
                         
                      • 4spdragtop

                        4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        Ok pump pulled and stripped down a little further. There is a "circlip" that clips into shaft and holds rotor in place tight on shaft. That is where the endplay was coming from. Removing that clip has tweaked it somewhat so a new one is needed. Can I replace with an external snap ring? I'm wondering if that would help with endplay vs using orig style clip?
                        Thoughts?
                        Thanks.
                        Steve

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                        • Murray

                          Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          Wow! You have now gone farther than what I normally do. Good job. We all are going to learn something here. You are now the P/S expert. Make sure there is clearance for the new style snap ring and let us know how it turns out.
                           
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                          • 4spdragtop

                            4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                            Lol by no means an expert... all I've done is mess something up worse than it was lol. Gotta dig deeper to fix my stupid shit. I hadn't planned on going this far but.....
                            Also in behind new lip seal is a needle bearing of some sort. It "looks and feels" good. I would rather not remove lip seal(new), to replace a good bearing? Ideas?
                            Gonna check with machine shop on clip.
                            Thanks!
                            20180806_224355.jpg
                             
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                            • Murray

                              Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                              I would think that your only issue is the end play- just deal with that. Is the groove for the clip messed up? Snap rings are standard sizes. You might have one laying around or find an assortment at a hardware store. I don't think you need a machinist- you can do this.
                               
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                              • Dicer

                                Dicer Well-Known Member

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                                Grandpa always told me, “pull the wheel, change the seal”. I am sure he meant this for anything that involved having a seal. The caged needle bearings, if you slapped the housing against your hand and the needles didn't fall out its OK. The actual diameter of needle bearings hold themselves in the cage.

                                The right side of the pump shaft looks a little dulled, I would change that bearing for sure and clean the shaft up. You can get that seal for sure CR6767 (Chicago Rawhide#) , checking on the nets the whole seal kit is just a little bit more then the seal itself. The earlier seals are leather.

                                The cir-clip I would to bend back into shape, if it lays flat after your bend, your good to go. Some farm/home stores would have these in there hardware section. Use a feeler gauge to lay on top of the shaft so the openings of the clip does not scratch the shaft during install. The groove on the pump shaft looks to be machined round not squared, nothing but a cir-clip will work.

                                If I was as far as you now, I would change all the needle bearings and a new seal kit.
                                 
                              • 4spdragtop

                                4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                Thanks guys. Clip is definitely tweaked. Made of round spring steel maybe?
                                The reason I mentioned machinist was for them to offer different clip sizes out of their tickle trunk(hopefully). Our hardware store has external snap rings, just not sure if I can sub this style of clip in(the kind with a hole in each end)
                                More endplay with clip reinstalled.
                                And yes 2 needle bearings came out of old one, but went back into position. I don't mind the cost of a seal, more the potential of me fn more stuff up lol.
                                The shaft is dulled right where the gland sits on the shaft.
                                Thanks all.
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                                • Murray

                                  Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                  Really cool. Thanks for photo's. The lesson here is - always support end of shaft when pressing on the pulley. When someone argues for something else, you can correct them.
                                   
                                • 4spdragtop

                                  4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                  Thanks Murray, although this wasn't my intention I'm at this godforsaken point now. So I can at least post pics. I had a twin to this pump and sold it dammit.
                                  Stopped at about 5 places today and no luck with clip. I gotta couple external snap rings I'll try?
                                  Thing needs brakes too, what a nightmare looking for those as well. Should be in tomorrow, fingers crossed they fit.
                                  Thanks