TTI headder Install Article from Mopar Muscle....

[abodyjoe]

ofcourse the just barley mention the starter issue and try to burry it in the middle there and tell you "if" you have starter clearance issues that tti sells a special one that is smaller and clocked differently..... they fail to tell you that the special starter is over $200.



<Copy Of Article Deleted>

 

[flyboy01]

You early a-body guys are a riot, you keep complaining about fit issues with headers, but complain about TTI trying to give you a header that actually fits! So what if you need to buy a new starter to replace you old one. They did the best they could with the tight confines of the the early A engine bay, I know of guy buying $1400 headers for 2005 Hemi Rams that have to make some mods, including cutting off lugs from the block that get in the way. I have owned Thorley headers in the past (Twice!), the last set I sold after two months because they were leaking-warping junk. I will never buy Doug's again. I am saving my pennies for a set of TTI's. I have heard nothing but good things from everybody who ever bought a set! You need to stop complaining about the BEST headers on the market and step up and buy a set.

 

[littleman66]

i thought a starter from a late dodge dakota 4x4 would work.

 

[daves66valiant]

Thanks for posting the article Joe. I read it a few days ago. Not a bad article. I plan on posting a detailed install of the set I ponied up for a few months ago. I agree the article was a little vague on the starter issue which is $240 bucks. This is a big ouch for most people. When you call tti they are not vague or appologetic about it. Ultimately, these stepped headers fit. They are not split into 3 different pieces like the Doug's which requires manual steering and a simple mini-starter. I question their quality control now that Pertronix took over and the price dropped from $1000 to $787.95(from Summit).

I think the tti's are currently better than anything out there because they allow for different setups. The thing I really like is that I can keep my powersteering. Everything fits great on the engine stand with the Keisler 5-speed tranny and Lakewood Bellhousing. I'm running the hydraulic clutch but the car in the article is a factory 4-speed. Added options are nice and I'm glad I did not have to switch to manual steering just to get headers. Getting a rebuilt manual steering box would have cost nearly as much as the clocked starter. It all ends up being a wash in the end. Sure there are cheaper ways of putting headers on an early A-body (fenderwells, spitfires, Doug's etc) but you will not find a more complete, under chassis, off-the-shelf header to tailpipe system....Period. Pony up the duckets or at least be thankful that somebody else is making the effort to give us early a-body guys a vastly improved product option.

Just a biased opinion since I immediately got over the starter issue as soon as picked up my tti's. Works of art.

Here are the starters side by side

If the Powermaster blew. You could take the starter body from a regular mini-starter and swap it.

 

[abodyjoe]

You early a-body guys are a riot, you keep complaining about fit issues with headers, but complain about TTI trying to give you a header that actually fits! So what if you need to buy a new starter to replace you old one. They did the best they could with the tight confines of the the early A engine bay, I know of guy buying $1400 headers for 2005 Hemi Rams that have to make some mods, including cutting off lugs from the block that get in the way. I have owned Thorley headers in the past (Twice!), the last set I sold after two months because they were leaking-warping junk. I will never buy Doug's again. I am saving my pennies for a set of TTI's. I have heard nothing but good things from everybody who ever bought a set! You need to stop complaining about the BEST headers on the market and step up and buy a set.

if you actually read and understood what i wrote i wasn't bitching about the headders.. i was bitching about the idiot that wrote the article... if your gonna do an article about installing tti headders don't you think the least you should do is spend some time and explain the starter issue a little better???

 

[abodyjoe]

I'm running the hydraulic clutch .

let me know how that works out.. i'm thinking of going that direction with my dart...

 

[daves66valiant]

[/QUOTE]let me know how that works out.. i'm thinking of going that direction with my dart...

It probably does free up alot more space down there by getting rid of the z-bar setup.

They did skirt the starter issue for sure. :sad:

 

[daves66valiant]

If anybody know the confines of the early a. Joe speaks from experience. Look at his site. The old 440 valiant kicked ***.

 

[65ChargerDart]

I read the article and think it was one of the most poorly written articles I've ever read in Mopar Muscle or any other Mopar magazine.
If they really wanted to write a decent piece it would have addressed the 3 non-fender-well headers available for early A bodies; TTI's, Doug’s, and Spitfires and compared ease of installation, issues with starters, power steering and transmissions (904/727/833), how well each work with 273/318/340/360s, 10.5" clutch concerns as well as a performance comparison. I mean, if performance wasn't an issue, why invest $1,500 in an exhaust upgrade?
Now that would be an informative article that would provide owners of early A bodies information they could actually use in making decisions about which performance exhaust system to use for their particular application. It would have taken some time to research, knowledge of the subject, and an understanding of the needs of the end users of the products being discussed. What we got was an obviously quickly cobbled together article that's only real purpose was obviously to kiss one of their advertiser's asses and provide as little useful information as possible.

Personally, I think they owe their readers and subscribers an apology for that poor piece of journalistic crap that would have received a failing grade in any first year journalism class!

 

[19duster74]

I think this site is the best source of information available. Why? Because it is information from people that love Mopars and get their hands dirty. The magazines are supporting sponsors and trying to boost sales. You guys/girls respond to questions with experience and no bias to one manufacturer or another. I still buy the magazines for the pictures and enjoy looking at them but for technical information I come to FABO. Just my 2-cents.

 

[abodyjoe]

What we got was an obviously quickly cobbled together article that's only real purpose was obviously to kiss one of their advertiser's asses and provide as little useful information as possible.

Personally, I think they owe their readers and subscribers an apology for that poor piece of journalistic crap that would have received a failing grade in any first year journalism class!

exactly what i was getting at... seems like they rushed to get the article out there just to beat the other guys and kiss a little but with a big advertiser of theirs..... its a shame because more and more articles are getting like that...

 

[jahsh]

They are not split into 3 different pieces like the Doug's which requires manual steering and a simple mini-starter. I question their quality control now that Pertronix took over and the price dropped from $1000 to $787.95(from Summit).

I also wonder if the price drop is because of 1) Spitfires are actually taking market share because of a low price point and 2) TTI is competing at a quality point. So Doug's could no longer keep a high price point and have any niche in the market.

When Doug's were $1,000, TTI and Spitfire (to some degree) wasn't around. The only other option was to cut your car up, which is out-of-the-question for a larger portion of us.

 

[blackace]

I picked up the issue and the first thing I thought when reading the article was just to advertise/promote the TTI headers.

 

[custom100]

the article i think could have and should have been done beter it seemed to me that it was just a 3-4 page article that should have been in the new products section. that said it is great that there is finaly some choices in headers for us early a-body owners, i've seen the doug headers installed and they look great and the guy that has them has had no problems with them. it would have been nice to have a small run down in the writen part of the article at the first of what was needed to be removed.

i switched to the dakota/durango starter when mine died, a friend of mine was helping me and could not believe how long itwas taking to replace. so as a mechanic he looked up the book time to replace and it was listed out as 8.5hrs. so the new starter worked great.

 

[66dartman]

Sure love my Dougs which are NOT Doug Thorley headers, different company. Install was easier than the tti's, but still a PITA. I feel luckier than the guys a few years back who didn't even have a choice. Let's face it: Mainstream mopar fans will always regard the early a body as a stepchild and the Mopar Muscle article proves it.

 

[65ChargerDart]

Let's face it: Mainstream mopar fans will always regard the early a body as a stepchild and the Mopar Muscle article proves it.

I agree... Most people don't buy Mopar magazines to check out all the cool '65 Dart GT's and Barracudas because most people who buy those mags probably don't own Mopars... that's the reason they do all the Hemi and 6-Pack stories. But if you're going to do an article on any subject, and you are a reasonably respected national publication, then do it right or don't do it! That article was a journalistic embarrasment and a disservice to the early A-body community.
I think there are a lot more of us early A body guys out there than one (especially MOPAR MUSCLE) might think. Just a guess here, but I think there are more active early A body owners than 426 Hemi owners.

 

[abodyjoe]

Mainstream mopar fans will always regard the early a body as a stepchild and the Mopar Muscle article proves it.

your probably right about that.. although i seen them getting more popular latley because they are still reasonably priced..

 

[C130 Chief]

Most magazine articles these days center around one specific product and should be considered expanded advertizements. This was a case in point.

That being said, if I could get a set of free headers out of the deal, I'd gladly take pictures of the install and submit a write-up to a magazine in which the manufacturer advertizes. Probably wouldn't be too negative either.

 

[flyboy01]

I read the article and think it was one of the most poorly written articles I've ever read in Mopar Muscle or any other Mopar magazine.
If they really wanted to write a decent piece it would have addressed the 3 non-fender-well headers available for early A bodies; TTI's, Doug’s, and Spitfires and compared ease of installation, issues with starters, power steering and transmissions (904/727/833), how well each work with 273/318/340/360s, 10.5" clutch concerns as well as a performance comparison. I mean, if performance wasn't an issue, why invest $1,500 in an exhaust upgrade?
Now that would be an informative article that would provide owners of early A bodies information they could actually use in making decisions about which performance exhaust system to use for their particular application. It would have taken some time to research, knowledge of the subject, and an understanding of the needs of the end users of the products being discussed. What we got was an obviously quickly cobbled together article that's only real purpose was obviously to kiss one of their advertiser's asses and provide as little useful information as possible.

Personally, I think they owe their readers and subscribers an apology for that poor piece of journalistic crap that would have received a failing grade in any first year journalism class!

I don't think you are being fair with them. If you read the article, you would see that they were just trying on a set just to see how they fit, the car was going to be restored and did not look like it was even running.

I think you are being a bunch of whiners. The magazine is covering a subject that would probably not even have been ever considered if TTI had not offered them a free set of headers, which they probably had to really look around to find somebody with an unpopular (no offence) Mopar body style who was willing to let them do a quick (probably one day) photo shoot and install.

Mopar Muscle is not a big-bucks operation, they will not fly halfway across the country, spend a week installing and testing these headers. Most of their articles are based on local cars, or cars the writers own. The writers are not very well paid, nor do the magazines have unlimited budgets. If you think they are, then maybe you should quit your job and become a magazine writer.

If you think you can do better, then buy a set, do a writeup with testing and photos and submit it to Mopar action. I'm sure that they would be happy to publish your article, and if they pay you a premium, you might make $800. I don't know about you, but I sure can't afford to do that.

You guys should be grateful that TTI made headers for you, that you don't have an even more unpopular body style, and that a national Mopar magazine actually aknowledged the early A-bodies. I used to fart around with Dakotas for many years, I did not have half the selection of parts that you guys have, nor ever seeing any articles in magazines. Remember that the magazines do watch these forums and if you insult the guy who wrote that brief article, what do you think the chances of him doing another early A-article will be.

Stop being whiners and accept a gift when you see one. You should be thanking them for aknowledging the pre-67 A-bodies.

 

[flyboy01]

Oh, and as far as the "starter issue", they are not hiding this fact, they are letting you know ahead of time that you probably will have to buy a new starter. Why don't you try to have a starter custom modified to fit, have an adaptor machined, and then do a bunch of testing, what will that cost you? $225 for a low-production, application specific starter is a steal. Its a tight fit, obviously, so there were some thing that needed to be done to make it all fit.

 

[daves66valiant]

Ok...I kind of see your point Flyboy but I could give a **** about the magazine writers watching these forums and whether or not my body style is popular. The magazines and writers would be up ***** creek without early a-body enthusiasts. Why? Because most of us early a-body guys have or have had later a-bodies, b-bodies, e-bodies ect. They (mopar muscle) had a great article a couple months ago about early a-bodies and how reasonable they are compared to the later or more desired cars. They even did a disc brake upgrade article on a 64 Valiant sponsered by SSBC. Cool article in my opinion.

Magazine companies exist to make money (via product adverts) and serve a varied customer base of MOPAR fans regardless of popularity contests. Come on... look at the last two issues. Lots of new hemi stuff and mods for the new Charger & Magnum. It's about subscriptions and extended market outreach to us early a-body fans and the next generation of mopar fans.

There has been an increasing demand for early-a products in recent years. There are companies out there who are scrambling to meet those demands with quality products because there is mucho money to be made in this industry. I am thankful for TTI stepping up to the plate and offering these headers. But I am in no way GRATEFUL FOR THE GIFT OF THESE HEADERS. I am in no way kissing anybody's *** because they came out with some great new product I paid $1700 bucks for. My life would go on with or without them and so would the hobby.

This is off the subject but you struck a nerve there Flyboy. No offense intended. It's a "riot" that there are still people out there that like to bash others who have a less than desirable car. The same mopar muscle issue has an F-body article that was very cool. Seriously, we don't need your elitist attitude because you have a 68' mopar and have most every aftermarket product out there for you to purchase. Not all of us early a-body guys are "whiners and complainers".

 

[lilcuda]

I have owned Thorley headers in the past (Twice!), the last set I sold after two months because they were leaking-warping junk. I will never buy Doug's again.

I think you are confusing Doug Thorley headers: http://www.dougthorleyheaders.com/

with Doug's Headers: http://www.dougsheaders.com/ .

Doug Thorley headers used to be good until he sold the company. Now they sell $79.95 junk headers. He started a new company called Doug's Headers, which was sold to Pertronix last year. They produce quality pieces last I heard. Hopefully, they haven't started cutting corners. The beauty of buying Doug's headers from Summit is that if they look like junk, you ship them back and get a refund. No hassles.

By the way, my only complaint about the TTI headers is the fact that you have to take the torsion bars out to install them. Why couldn't they put a slip-fit joint on one or more of the tubes like they do on some of their other headers?

I agree they are a great thing for us early a-body guys. I just think they need some fine-tuning of their design.

Lee
1966 Barracuda, 340, 4 speed

 

[daves66valiant]

Sorry for the blasting/rant.
I believe there will be better articles in the future about these headers, including comparisons. It may be similar to a previous article comparing tti-hedman-hookers-stock manifolds on the track using one car. BTW, TTI came out on top. It would be a difficult article to do with the early A's because it is so time consuming to change out the headers. I will continue to read Mopar Muscle tech articles b/c I think they do a pretty good job even if it was a rush job. The more info sources the better.

Write an email or letter to Mopar Muscle. I'm sure they will consider it and may apologize for the less than perfect article.

When Doug's were $1,000, TTI and Spitfire (to some degree) wasn't around. The only other option was to cut your car up, which is out-of-the-question for a larger portion of us.

I knew tti was in the R&D phase of their headers so I waited patiently until I could lay my eyes on them. I intitially thought they too would be a $1000 but are less. Although, they are the same price (old doug's price) when you include the starter. Either way it was a $1000. They are worth the wait and I plan to post an article similar to DJVCUDA's spitfire post. I really enjoyed his article. Hopefully, I will get a journalistic A minus. Would be happy with a B+ :angel9:

 

[65ChargerDart]

I don't think you are being fair with them. If you read the article, you would see that they were just trying on a set just to see how they fit, the car was going to be restored and did not look like it was even running.

I think I was being very fair and subjective with them, and I DID read the article. Who owns an early A body that is willing to invest $750 for a set of headers hasn't done some research and know that they fit with some qualifications that weren't addressed well in the article? Doug's headers FIT! Spitfire headers FIT. so where's the burning question here waiting for an answer?

I think you are being a bunch of whiners. The magazine is covering a subject that would probably not even have been ever considered if TTI had not offered them a free set of headers, which they probably had to really look around to find somebody with an unpopular (no offence) Mopar body style who was willing to let them do a quick (probably one day) photo shoot and install.

So you don't think Dougs' & Spitfire would have sent them a free set of headers for a fair write-up?

Mopar Muscle is not a big-bucks operation, they will not fly halfway across the country, spend a week installing and testing these headers. Most of their articles are based on local cars, or cars the writers own. The writers are not very well paid, nor do the magazines have unlimited budgets. If you think they are, then maybe you should quit your job and become a magazine writer.

They could have used the same pitiful car and done the comparison... surely they could have found some running small blocks locally.

If you think you can do better, then buy a set, do a writeup with testing and photos and submit it to Mopar action. I'm sure that they would be happy to publish your article, and if they pay you a premium, you might make $800. I don't know about you, but I sure can't afford to do that.

While that's not my business, if the three manufacturers will furnish me with their product in exchange for a fair and thorough article in a national magizine devited to their market, I'll do it and it would be done right!

You guys should be grateful that TTI made headers for you, that you don't have an even more unpopular body style, and that a national Mopar magazine actually aknowledged the early A-bodies. I used to fart around with Dakotas for many years, I did not have half the selection of parts that you guys have, nor ever seeing any articles in magazines. Remember that the magazines do watch these forums and if you insult the guy who wrote that brief article, what do you think the chances of him doing another early A-article will be.

I am grateful TTI, Doug's and Spitfire have gone to the trouble to make headers for our cars... but they aren't doing it out of the kindness of their hearts... there is a profit motive involved here, and if there was not enough demand to be profitable, they wouldn't manufacture them.

Stop being whiners and accept a gift when you see one. You should be thanking them for aknowledging the pre-67 A-bodies.

Take your wimpy 318 powered post '66 Dart and go apologize for MOPAR MUSCLE somewhere else other than this EARLY A body forum!

 

[flyboy01]

Seriously, we don't need your elitist attitude because you have a 68' mopar and have most every aftermarket product out there for you to purchase. Not all of us early a-body guys are "whiners and complainers".

If you are not a whiner, then it was not directed at you. I'm not sure where you get "elitist" from. I never mentioned my car as being superior, as a matter of fact, I'm sure most of the early-A's could wipe the streets with my wimply 318 (admittedly so). As a matter of fact, I was looking at a 65 dart before I bought my 68 two months ago. There are other threads where people with early A's are complaining about lack of parts. This was just the thread that set me off. There is no reason to bash a reputable company and a magazine for trying. If you bought a set of these headers and they DID NOT fit, then you would have a good reason to complain.

Take your wimpy 318 powered post '66 Dart and go apologize for MOPAR MUSCLE somewhere else other than this EARLY A body forum!

Now that is an elitist attitude! I like all vehicles with Mopar engines, I don't have any preference for body style.

if you actually read and understood what i wrote i wasn't bitching about the headders.. i was bitching about the idiot that wrote the article... if your gonna do an article about installing tti headders don't you think the least you should do is spend some time and explain the starter issue a little better???

Would it have been better if they did nothing at all? They were clearly limited in that the car they used was non-running.

If they really wanted to write a decent piece it would have addressed the 3 non-fender-well headers available for early A bodies; TTI's, Doug’s, and Spitfires and compared ease of installation, issues with starters, power steering and transmissions (904/727/833), how well each work with 273/318/340/360s, 10.5" clutch concerns as well as a performance comparison. I mean, if performance wasn't an issue, why invest $1,500 in an exhaust upgrade?

You are definately being unrealistic. Those three headers companies themselves would not have agreed to that test, because somebody would have come out a winner, and there would have been two loosers. The point is that Spitfire and Doug's did not offer the magazine a free set of headers. The headers do not cost $1500 either. You can get ceramic coated headers with the starter for $900.

I think this site is the best source of information available. Why? Because it is information from people that love Mopars and get their hands dirty. The magazines are supporting sponsors and trying to boost sales. You guys/girls respond to questions with experience and no bias to one manufacturer or another. I still buy the magazines for the pictures and enjoy looking at them but for technical information I come to FABO. Just my 2-cents.

I totally agree. You have to take what you can get, when you get it. Especially if you are not normally supported by the majority.


I guess I'm done striing the pot here, I just had to speak up for Mopar Muscle. I will take my opinions with me now.