Turn signal switch wiring

Electrical and Ignition

  1. Chris Biggs

    Chris Biggs Well-Known Member

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    Can somebody tell me what the circled item in the picture is and where it's located? Extremely new to auto renovation and need to change out the turn signal and horn.

    20210129_210228.jpg
     
  2. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Coming out of the steering column, right about at the dash lower edge, to interface with the instrument panel/ under dash harness If it is a locking column, there will be a long slender one for the ignition switch.

    You need to tell us what you are working on, year, make, model. There are service manuals and 3rd party diagrams over at MyMopar. If this is a locking column, AbodyJoe has a nice "how to" old thread

    How To Install an Ignition Switch in 1970 Dodge Dart
     
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    • Chris Biggs

      Chris Biggs Well-Known Member

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      Sorry about that, I'm working on a 66 Barracuda with a 273 V8. It's not a locking column. The image is directly from the service manual.
       
    • 67Dart273

      67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      should be able to feel up under the dash directly beside/ to the left of the column. What is it exactly you are wanting to do?
       
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      • Chris Biggs

        Chris Biggs Well-Known Member

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        The turn signals and the horn aren't working so I will be looking into those items to see what's wrong. I just didn't know where that assembly was. I know it was before the firewall bulkhead disconnect but had no idea where it's located in the cabin. I'll look for it in the morning.
         
      • mopardude62

        mopardude62 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        If you need to replace the turn signal switch, I would recommend purchasing a replacement from Slant Six Dan. They cost a little more than the Chinese ones sold by most vendors but you’re paying for quality and a lifetime of trouble free service. They are listed at the bottom of this page.

        Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply
         
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        • Chris Biggs

          Chris Biggs Well-Known Member

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          Thanks a lot for the info!
           
        • Mattax

          Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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          Since the horn is not working, its more likely the feeds into the connector than the turn signal switch.

          Another good resource are the Chrysler Master Tech booklets.
          Turn signal operation is explained in 1965, #2.
          Master Technician Service Conference - Chrysler's Training for Mechanics

          1968 has one that explains wiring diagrams.

          On yours the H3 line is power to the horn and D2 power to the turn signal.
          Generally the horn feed should always be hot when the battery is connected. So check there for battery voltage.
          And the turn signals (D1 & D2) only get power when the key is in Run or Accessory position.
          Trace D1 back on the diagram and it should eventually lead to the accessory terminal on the key switch. Check that one for battery voltage with the key in ACC
           
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          • Chris Biggs

            Chris Biggs Well-Known Member

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            What an awesome resource!! Thanks a million!!
             
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            • Mattax

              Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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              Here's a tip when reading the diagrams.
              'Battery' is commonly used as a shorthand for power supply regardless of whether the power is coming from the battery or the alternator.

              Colors may vary but typical power scheme looks like this
              upload_2021-1-30_14-29-0.png
              Notice the alternator output terminal is marked "Batt", and the headlight switch input terminals are B1 and B2. This what I mean by shorthand.
              These main feeds are always hot (when the battery is connected).
              But when the headlights areactually powered by the battery (12.5 V) they look dim compared to when they are supplied by the alternator (14 V).


              Second tip.
              On many cars Chrysler labled the ammeter face 'alternator'. This is somewhat confusing as it doesn't show alternator output.
              The ammeter shows battery charging or discharging.
              When the battery is fully charged, the meter should read zero while driving.
              If its showing discharge while driving, then the alternator isn't supplying power.
              In that way it does provide an indicator of alternator performance.
              Easiest is to think of it as battery Charge - Discharge meter.
               
              Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
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              • Chris Biggs

                Chris Biggs Well-Known Member

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                No wonder I was having a hard time finding the turn signal harness/connector, it isn't there. Apparently the person who worked on the car before me decided to not do things correctly. Anybody have good advice on where to find the correct connector? 20210130_225932.jpg
                 
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                • Mattax

                  Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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                  Ugh.
                  Can someone post a photo of a '66 connector?

                  To get a replacement possibilities:
                  1. Look in the cars being parted sales to if someone is parting a '66. And/or post a 'wanted' ad.
                  2. Download a parts book (or get someone to help) and look up the connector p/n. Looking up connectors not always easy. The advantage is with the p/n you can then more easily figure out what other models and years used it. You can also use the number to look on-line etc etc.
                  3. Use a generic Twin-lock or Molex 10 pin connector. I don't know if there is a need for it to slip past anything when the column is removed. Don't want it too big in that case.

                  If someone is parting a car and has a connector, see how much more of the harness you can get.
                  a. You may need to make up some for wire that was cut.
                  b. It's nice to have as much of a complete example and parts as you can get.
                   
                  Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
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                  • RedFish

                    RedFish Well-Known Member

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                    The early models, had a larger rectangle connector there. Later models have a long flat connector that will thread though openings in those column collars.
                    Unless you are willing to take the early column collars off you would have to depin the terminals in that early connector and pull wires only out and back in again. Depinning those terminals isn't easy even with the correct tools. Todays aftermarket will include the male/switch side connector, (separate from the wire terminals) but there was a time when a replacement switch did not include a new male/switch side connector. If you destroyed that connector, one option was cut the female/harness side connector off and make the wires up individually.
                    Where to buy the matching female/harness side connector today? This might be it.... MN3254 - 1963-69 Mopar; Turn Signal Switch Connector
                    but doesn't include the female terminals. So what do we do... buy both male and female molex connectors with terminals. something like this... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DLQGMD5/?tag=fabo03-20
                     
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                    • Chris Biggs

                      Chris Biggs Well-Known Member

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                      Great info! I was looking for something but the only thing I could find was the turn signal switch with the one side of the connector. I appreciate the help!
                       
                    • Mattax

                      Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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                      FWIW Connector half on my '67 when I had the column on the bench. Pretty sure that's what they call 'twin-lock'. (Orange wire is illumination for the column mounted gear selection indicator.) Based on Redfish's observations your '66 might have been similar. But since you have nothing there a functional equivalent may work just as well.
                      upload_2021-2-1_11-31-5.png
                       
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                      • Mattax

                        Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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                        Buying the original type of terminal and connector.
                        Advantage: If you need to replace the turn signal switch, the terminals will plug right in.
                        Disadvantage: Will require some hunting and may take a couple tries to get all the pieces.

                        Changing to a different terminal connector.
                        Disadvantage: Will have to change the terminals if repalcing the turn signal switch.
                        Advantage: Easier to find terminals and matching connectors.

                        I don't know if the molex mini-fit will mate to the "Twin Lock" terminals or connectors.
                        This post will help you get started if going for the original connectors. Even has a likely Packard/Delphi part number
                        Sources for Chrysler type wire terminals
                         
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                        • cudamark

                          cudamark FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          If you're going to replace the switch, you might be able to get the connector with it from some suppliers. There's probably a bunch of broken original switches out there where you also could get that side of the connector. The dash harness side would need to come from a harness someone is willing to cut up, or, by getting a new harness. Reproduction harnesses are a bit pricey though. That connector should be the same for several years though. I believe the switch is '62-6 for the exact one, and the '67-9 will work with minor modification. Not sure if the '67-9 connector is the same though.
                           
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                          • RedFish

                            RedFish Well-Known Member

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                            Harness connectors are for ease of assembly and service but.... as stated above, It was several years later before Chryslers engineers changed this particular harness connector to a more serviceable design, size and shape. If you did buy the harness side connector chopped of a OEM harness, you would need to make up the wires to your harness in a similar way to what the previous owner did, or buy the proper Packard female terminals for it.
                            In my opinion... this few dollars spent is still the most practical solution... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DLQGMD5/?tag=fabo03-20
                            It wont be any more serviceable in the future, should your signal switch fail again. You will be able to unplug the signal switch if you ever need to remove the column for some other service procedure.
                             
                          • Chris Biggs

                            Chris Biggs Well-Known Member

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                            Thanks. I went ahead and ordered both sides so I can do it properly. I even ordered an extra set just in case.
                             
                          • Cuda416

                            Cuda416 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                            Doesn't look like anyone has mentioned it but a bad ground can cause a lot to not work. Grounds are at the device end of things and if not making contact properly, they just won't work well. Later cars have both firewall AND core support grounds as well as the engine ground. That's no accident.
                             
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                            • RedFish

                              RedFish Well-Known Member

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                              The little ground jumper on steering column handles horn and shift indicator lamp. I agree those other grounds at core support and firewall to block do need to be present.
                               
                            • Cuda416

                              Cuda416 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                              Not necessarily. Our 65 has all the wiring correct but the grounding was bad at the horn. No honk-honk... Fix the ground and honk-honk.... All grounds matter. On a 60 year old car, the connectivity from front to back can suffer badly. best to check with a test light at all points.
                               
                            • Randy Miller

                              Randy Miller Well-Known Member

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                              I'm try to hook up my Painless Wiring Kit to my 67 Dart GT steering column plug. As I look at your picture I understand what wires go where, but WHY is there two for some? Thanks for the help.

                              IMG-6663.jpg
                               
                            • 67Dart273

                              67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                              You are probably looking at the branch off to the dash indicators, tan and green I think
                               
                            • Randy Miller

                              Randy Miller Well-Known Member

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                              Of course!!!! This wiring is NOT my favorite. But if I go slow then it makes sense. Thanks so much for the help. Do you know anything about the in dash ignition? I think I have the wires figured out, but always nice to have a second set of eyes. Thanks

                              IMG-6667.jpg
                               
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