Twin Turbo 1971 Scamp Project

[superdve]

Ok I'm going to post a few teaser pictures of my 1971 Scamp Project. I know I'm going to get hate from the purists but let me explain how this little car was saved. I bought it non op from a young guy in Phoenix who literally saved it from the crusher. He spent hundreds in replacement parts and it still wouldn't run. It had been moved around the yard brutally with a fork lift. Being Original paint and all and everything there I decided to ship it home to Detroit and build a 250 day/yr driver for myself. Don't get me wrong I LOVE slants and LA engines but I figured that if I was going to drive a car everyday it better be decent on gas. A new hemi engine and trans was pricey and a pretty tight fit. I next looked at LS engines but didn't have the heart for that. A turbo ecotec passed my mind but not enough torque.

So I decided on a JDM, (Japanese Domestic Market) Toyota twin turbo inline six, with Variable Valve Timing and a good 4 speed automatic transmission. Anyone who has built other cars will tell you that 7 main bearings and a German designed 4 valve head gives this engine fantastic potential. In stock configuration with bolt ons this engine can easily put 500 WHP to the tire. Fuel economy could be close to 25 on the freeway.

So far I've yanked the dead slant and tossed the Toyota engine into the bay to see what needs hacking/welding/shoehorning to make fit!

 

[AdamR]

there is another guy on the site with a supra motor in a duster,

 

[superdve]

there is another guy on the site with a supra motor in a duster,

Really? I'd love to see his build! I didn't think I was the first or only!

 

[kkeith1986]

I really enjoy these weird engine swaps. Please keep us posted!

 

[inkjunkie]

screw the purists......

 

[superdve]

screw the purists......

If it was a rare and special car I would have kept it correct. But this will be another Mopar that beats up on the other brands and doesn't have to tell its secret.

I'm glad we have the purists who keep the important cars they way they were. My daughter and HER 71' Scamp is kind of like that!

 

[inkjunkie]

If it was a rare and special car I would have kept it correct. But this will be another Mopar that beats up on the other brands and doesn't have to tell its secret.

I'm glad we have the purists who keep the important cars they way they were. My daughter and HER 71' Scamp is kind of like that!

good point

 

[magnumdust]

If it was a rare and special car I would have kept it correct. But this will be another Mopar that beats up on the other brands and doesn't have to tell its secret.

I'm glad we have the purists who keep the important cars they way they were. My daughter and HER 71' Scamp is kind of like that!

I wish more people would get this sentiment. I just dealt with this purist nonsense when discussing the possibility of going LS powered on my car w/ my dad if/when the magnum blows up.

I would freak if someone did this on say a GSS demon/hemi dart(using "rare" a-body examples), but to me anything common and cheap is fair game for hybrid swaps. Its just hotrodding at its core. You take the body you like(maybe lighter, maybe you like the styling better/etc) and you add a better/lighter/more powerful engine.(whichever the case may be)

OP: Could you get some detailed pics of how it mounts/oil pan/ how low it sits?

Those 2JZ's are pretty tall engine i believe. And kudos for doing this, it was on my mind about a yr ago when my friend was temporarily storing a 2jz and some other honda motor for his neighboring import shop. I love the way those turbo 6's sound.

 

[superdve]

I wish more people would get this sentiment. I just dealt with this purist nonsense when discussing the possibility of going LS powered on my car w/ my dad if/when the magnum blows up.

I would freak if someone did this on say a GSS demon/hemi dart(using "rare" a-body examples), but to me anything common and cheap is fair game for hybrid swaps. Its just hotrodding at its core. You take the body you like(maybe lighter, maybe you like the styling better/etc) and you add a better/lighter/more powerful engine.(whichever the case may be)

OP: Could you get some detailed pics of how it mounts/oil pan/ how low it sits?

Those 2JZ's are pretty tall engine i believe. And kudos for doing this, it was on my mind about a yr ago when my friend was temporarily storing a 2jz and some other honda motor for his neighboring import shop. I love the way those turbo 6's sound.

I understand your Dad's position. Frankly the LA small blocks are SO GOOD, (IMHO), that it's really hard to beat them. They have LS like valve angles and respond really well to turbocharging, bolt in to a chassis, etc.
Having working extensively with the LS engines, at Livernois Motorsports, Thomson Automotive, and with Greg Banish, would have made the LS an natural choice for me. I have the calibration tools and it's all really easy in parts, headers, mounts, etc.

My initial thought was I'm going to build this with an AlterKation K member, 1.2 FT Brake Rotors, and just keep going until its stupid. Then my practical nature set in. I want to eventually promote my company's (Fram/Prestone/Autolite), brands at events like Street Machine Nats, Powertour with a bright orange custom Mopar that any car crafter could build and have it be a reasonable, fairly practical piece that allows for an upgrade path down the road. I'm going to try and build a car with air conditioning, power steering, and brakes as that's the hardest version to work around. BTW, Please like "Autolite Spark Plugs" on Facebook if you have time and help support the project there so I get love from my team!

So far here's what I know:

1) You obviously will need a JDM take out engine and trans.
2) An Australian, UK or UAE oil pan with a true MID SUMP OIL PAN from a mid 90's Toyota Crown, 2JZGE. ~$600 used. You can have Stef's make you a custom pan for $900 so don't worry too much if you can't get a crown pan.

Here's a Crown Pan:

Now, you could notch the heck out of the K Member for the JDM Aristo front sump oil pans but I'd say forget that because the notch will mod the K Member SO MUCH that you might as well call Hemi Denny and start fresh.

3) Remote Oil Filter Mount to clear power steering gear box.
4) Of course custom mounts. The Toyota biscuit mounts are beautiful and beefy but sadly wont clear the chassis.

This is not a small engine, not a light engine, not a simple engine. As long as you keep your arms around that fact then I suggest going forward. If I have TRUE interest from others I will copy a set of mounts and sell a set to defray some of my build costs.

So what are the benefits of this engine for the uninitiated:

• Massive Power Potential on a Stock Shortblock. You can drive around a nice sanely BPU modded Supra engine that will smoothly and quietly put down 400-500 HP forever and get you close to 25 MPG. OR you can mod the hell of of the thing with huge turbo, stand alone EFI, and work towards 700-800 RWHP.

• It's Techhie. You will have Sequential EFI, Variable Valve Timing, Electronic Throttle, well built overdrive trans, Twin Sequential Turbochargers, 7,000 RPM potential, 40 year old Mopar when you are done.
• You will be unique for sure. You will make some of the VFW and lawn show snobs really mad. Especially if you are planning to keep the car looking like a period correct hot rod like I am.
• You will not be slow. Without trying too hard you have built a 12 second car that will be happy to go way faster merely buy turning up the boost.

 

[magnumdust]

As an owner of a car with an LA motor, i completely disagree. These engines are crap compared to the LS. They just can't compete in the realm of street motors. You can't take an LA, give it 400hp+ and have nearly the same drivability.(which has to be considered with $4.00+ a gallon)

 

[Bill Dedman]

As an owner of a car with an LA motor, i completely disagree. These engines are crap compared to the LS. They just can't compete in the realm of street motors. You can't take an LA, give it 400hp+ and have nearly the same drivability.(which has to be considered with $4.00+ a gallon)

I can't argue with your comparision of the 360 vs. LS motors because the heads on the G,M. engines flow so well... but I'd like to present this following information with a comment or two, for your perusal.

I had a 318-powered '72 Valiant into which I swapped a low-mileage 360 Magnum (904) with the only engine changes to the 360 being a mild Hughesperformance cam and a Hi-Rise intake with a 750 Holley 4bbl. I did add a pair of 340 cast iron exhaust manifolds and dual exhaust at the time.

It made 262 RWHP and ran 13.30 @ 102mph.

Unhappy with those numbers, I swapped in a set of TTI stepped-headers, a
Vortech V-1, S-Trim belt-driven centrifugal supercharger (E-Bay purchase for $1000.00, new) and a Chinese-copy of an Air Gap intake manifold that mounted a blow-thru 750 Holley double-pumper 4150 carb.

Now, with no other changes, it made 445 RWHP and ran a traction-limited mid-11-second quarter mile e.t. at 118 mph.

That was with 10 pounds of boost.

I want to reiterate that except for the pretty mild, aftermarket cam (214/218 @ .050-lift; .525" gross lift, ground with 115-degrees of lobe separation) and a different intake manifold (Air-Gap clone) this 360 Magnum short block was 100-percent stock, with cast pistons, stock rods, and .040" compossition head gaskets.

I have, since, put a bigger (9"-wide) tire on it and changed the final drive from 3.55:1 to 4.10:1. My best 60-foot time with the prior setup was only 1.81-seconds, and that is not very good for a car with this car's potential, I think.

My point in all this is to attempt to point out that yes, the LS motors are really good, compared with a 360, but you can still have a lot of fun and go relatively quick with a 360 for not a lot of money.

I am hoping that with the new, wider tires and the 4.10 gear, my 60-foor times will improve to the extent that by removing some weight (back seat, fiberglass hood and front bumper,) I might even collect a high-10 second timeslip with this old tub.

So, how fast do you want to go? I think that a virtually 11-flat ride like mine is about as quick as is practical for a daily-driver, and I haven't even pulled the heads off the block, yet. It's all just bolt-on stuff, so far...

Driveability? My car idles happily at 475 rpm, (makes 12-inches of vacuum for the power-brake booster,) has gobs of low-end torque (stock 318 converter) and basically has the road-manners of a stock 318, due to the very mild cam.

My contention is that you can have TONS of fun with a 3,000-pound hobby car without breaking the bank or reverting to swapping in a non-Mopar engine.

Then again, maybe I'm just gettin' o-l-d... LOL!

My 2-cents...:glasses7:

 

[inkjunkie]

I understand your Dad's position. Frankly the LA small blocks are SO GOOD, (IMHO), that it's really hard to beat them. They have LS like valve angles and respond really well to turbocharging, bolt in to a chassis, etc.
[/LIST]

Let me first say that this is just my opinion and it is NOT a slam on small block Mopars. Bang for the buck, I see the LS as a hard to beat platform, just for how inexpensive they are and there apparent strength. Show me a passenger car LA block that can withstand 20+ pounds of boost, make 4 hp per cube with a rust stained cylinder wall and opened up oe crusty rings.....http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_1109_stock_gm_ls_engine_big_bang_theory/
Sure, this only applies if you are going to go down the forced induction road. But it is a hard fact to argue.......

 

[magnumdust]

Bill- my drivability is in reference to the achievable power + mpg. Thats what streetable is to me. My magnum powered car feels quick, has a steady idle, plenty of vacuum, but it strains to do better than 12mpg and thats if i have the car at an unpleasant 50-55mph on the highway. Neither of which are good when i have to drive 50 miles(one way) to go racing.

 

[Bill Dedman]

Bill- my drivability is in reference to the achievable power + mpg. Thats what streetable is to me. My magnum powered car feels quick, has a steady idle, plenty of vacuum, but it strains to do better than 12mpg and thats if i have the car at an unpleasant 50-55mph on the highway. Neither of which are good when i have to drive 50 miles(one way) to go racing.

I didn't understand that fuel economy was an important part of the "driveability" factor.

In that case, I agree with you completely. The LS motors are hard to beat!

 

[CUUDAK]

OMG!!! FAST AND FURIOUS!!

LoL! I say whatever floats your boat! I always said "No one builds engines like the Japs!!" I swear by Toyota. I have had several and they last forever. I beat the hell out of a 20R in my 1977 Toyota Celica GT Fastback when I was a kid in High School. All I ever did to it was change the oil, a battery, brake pads and a set of starter brushes. Oh, and about 15 sets of tires!! I still own a 97 Avalon that my wife drives every day. I also have a buddy that has a 95 Supra knocking on 900hp with a straight 6 twin turbo.

Go for it! You may surprise a few Mopar guys when they finally catch up with you to ask whats under the hood! LoL......

 

[1970Duster]

First off Cool for being different!!! Love it :twisted:
Second why a Toyota motor over the RB26 (assuming you want to inline motor vs v6)? I ask because my R34 gtr made over 1000hp at the wheels and was quite street able. Tip, have your waste gates blow out just under the edge of the wheel wells pointing up, if you do it right you can flip dress quite easily ask me how I know!

 

[MoparDaddy]

Bill- my drivability is in reference to the achievable power + mpg. Thats what streetable is to me. My magnum powered car feels quick, has a steady idle, plenty of vacuum, but it strains to do better than 12mpg and thats if i have the car at an unpleasant 50-55mph on the highway. Neither of which are good when i have to drive 50 miles(one way) to go racing.

With the money your going to spend to get better mpg AND power to do this swap, could you not have swapped in a 6.1 or 7.4 hemi and done the same thing with the same or less amount of money while having a much better sounding exhaust? Serious question. Not a crack on the build just to be clear

 

[CUUDAK]

With the money your going to spend to get better mpg AND power to do this swap, could you not have swapped in a 6.1 or 7.4 hemi and done the same thing with the same or less amount of money while having a much better sounding exhaust? Serious question. Not a crack on the build just to be clear

Umm! I don't know if you have one but my SRT 6.1 barely gets 11 mpg and thats driving it easy around town! It might get 14 on the Highway.

I am thinking its got maybe 450-500 rwhp at best!

 

[MoparDaddy]

Umm! I don't know if you have one but my SRT 6.1 barely gets 11 mpg and thats driving it easy around town! It might get 14 on the Highway.

I am thinking its got maybe 450-500 rwhp at best!

No I don't have one. Therefore I don't know. Thus, i asked the question. I also see that your SRT doesn't have factory tuning. I'm sure that doesn't help

 

[CUUDAK]

No I don't have one. Therefore I don't know. Thus, i asked the question. I also see that your SRT doesn't have factory tuning. I'm sure that doesn't help

Well, now you know! He did say he wanted 500 rwhp in his first post. A bone stock 6.1 lists 14mpg city/18mpg hwy. Thats with a 5 speed auto tranny.

Mine has a AEM cai, Dynatech full tube headers with full 3" exhaust, high flow cats-mufflers and JBA cat back setup and a custom tune.

 

[MoparDaddy]

Well, now you know!

That I do

 

[hemitheus]

I am not a purist... but putting a toyo motor in a mopar is just awful. I know a guy who has 4 mark iv supras you could put that motor in.

if for no other reason. Good luck selling this car anytime in the future.

 

[SirDan]

I'm a big toyota/mopar fan. This is a great idea for a daily driver. People don't get turbos and boost around here.

Let me clue you non turbo guys in. You can cruise around without getting into boost, you need a considerable amount of load on the engine to build boost. you can cruise around all day long without getting into boost. So it is like an NA engine cruisin. these toyota motors will get way better mpgs than any LA, magnum or slant. So out of boost you've got a motor that gets great mpgs.

Now throw some boost at that sucker and you've got some power. You can work these up just as much as any mopar v8. But i think 500 might be a bit much for a reliable street motor. I think 350-400 will be easier, cheaper and more reliable. Do what you wish I'm just stating what i think here.

IMHO, gas mileage/reliability engine ill preach toyota ALLLL DAYYYY LONNGGG. old iron hp/reliability ill preach mopar all day long.

 

[superdve]

I am not a purist... but putting a toyo motor in a mopar is just awful. I know a guy who has 4 mark iv supras you could put that motor in.

if for no other reason. Good luck selling this car anytime in the future.

There's no shortage of JDM Twin Turbo Toyota engines. Do a quick search on EBAY and you will see! As far as selling the car I'm not sure I will slap it together, hate the build and give up! I've done that building cool GM sleepers that nobody wanted unless I was giving them away. But there is just something I love about the Darts and Valiants. They are the perfect size to have fun with, look great, and their simplicity is welcomed in a world of 10 airbags, Tire Pressure Monitoring, Roll Over Protection and OnStar. Not a day goes by in our Sassy Grass Green Scamp that we don't get a thumbs up or a smile! You just don't get that kind of love in a Supra. Heck I never got it in a Chevelle or the 2 Camaros I've owned.

That being said I love modern engine technology. I like revving 7,000 rpm, I like the midrange torque of turbos, and I love the smoothness of an inline six. If at some point I want to make 700hp with this car I will be able to do it without too much rebuilding.

If I had a nice 340, Viper, New Hemi, for the same low price as this Toyota engine I'd would have considered any of those.

One thing is for certain, I promise you that when you see the car done you will be glad I saved it from getting scrapped, you might even appreciate somewhere in the back of your mind that the car is still as practical as it was with the Slant 6!

Frankly you motivate me even more to not just toss my engine into a Lexus IS300 and scare up a 340 for my little Valiant!

 

[Hamhock]

This is a very cool idea that I have pondered over and over and I am glad to see someone taking the plunge with this. I am excited to see how this goes!

There simply is no better way to safely get a 40-50% over stock power increase than with a forced induction system.