Upgrade to Disc, or do Alterktion???

Discussion in 'Suspension, Steering and Chassis' started by illcuda65, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. illcuda65

    illcuda65 Well-Known Member

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    Just looking for some thoughts and feedback from this very knowledgeable board. My ride ais a 65 cuda- 318, 4 speed, 3.91 gears w/6 pack hood scoop. I would like to upgrade from 10" drum brakes on my 1965 Barracuda to a disc set up. I was thinking this would cost around 1 K.... After looking at kits I also thought adjustable upper control arms/strut rods, as wll as OEM disc brake spindles would help out the ride which takes the package to around 2 K.

    Looking at entire suspension set w/Alterktion from Reilly motorsports- 3,800 w/no brake kit.... If you do something to the front, might as well do the rear- 1,800.

    Looking at these types of upgrades.....why not plop in 3rd generation hemi.... I can be at 15 K of upgrades very quickly..... WHat are the best overall options as I never plan to sell the car.....
     
  2. Brad4406

    Brad4406 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    It all depends on how much you want to spend. I'm too cheap to spend any of those amounts you mentioned, so I found a 73 and later A-body single piston disc brake BBP front end out of a junk yard for $50 bucks and installed everything myself; of course I bought it about 10 years ago. If you choose this route, make sure you get the upper control arms, spindles, discs, rotors, brake lines, proportioning valve, brake pedal push rod, and the dual master cylinder. If the master cylinder turns out to be bad, at least you have a core for turning into the auto parts store.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the RMS stuff is awesome, but I can't afford to come off that kind of money.
     
  3. mopardude318

    mopardude318 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, depends on how much you want to spend...Also depends on what kind of car you are trying to build...

    Me, I am trying to build a dual purpose car that will handle amazing in the country roads, and also allow me to run low 11's high 10's in the quarter mile...So, to loose some weight, and get the best handling capabilities possible, I went with the alterkation front and rear setup. It is not cheap though...

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  4. 1970Duster

    1970Duster Well-Known Member

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    Alterktion is a good kit but I just don't like how the kit is based off the Mustang 2 frontend (Pinto), however if these same setup would be based off the viper or corvette I'd be all over that
     
  5. mopardude318

    mopardude318 Well-Known Member

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    And why don't you like that? What do you feel would be the major differences? I don't understand your reasoning....
     
  6. 1970Duster

    1970Duster Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the spindles and compare you can see a major difference between the two
     
  7. Riddler

    Riddler Project EH-Body

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    I think your making a big deal out of nothing. The mustang II front end is a commonly used front end for hot rodders. The parts are cheap and easy to get.

    The mustang II front end is wider than the A body front end. Imagine if a corvette or Viper front end was used. I'm sure it would increase the track width two fold.

    Riddler
     
  8. abodyjoe

    abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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    they use a mustang style spindle that is modified. the reason is because there are so many options for brakes out there and they are very reasonably priced.
     
  9. abodyjoe

    abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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    depends on what ya want.... i went with the alter-k and street lynx. it feels like a modern car when driving it...
     
  10. 1970Duster

    1970Duster Well-Known Member

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    Yeah compare the wheel bears of the mustang 2 vs. The corvette or viper. Now as far as the rack gone why can't you get it narrowed down? (I don't know slot about the rack just how they work) I state this because you can get c body axles cut down to fit a bodies (I got moser 345 alloy axles in mine though). But I guess it all depends on what you do with.
     
  11. dodgedifferent2

    dodgedifferent2 Well-Known Member

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    The front-end geometry of muscle-era Mopars is nearly perfect. Why anyone would spend that much money on an aftermarket front suspension whose only real change is to move the center of gravity up and forward (neither of which is desirable from either a handling or drag-racing standpoint) is completely beyond my grasp.

    Ehrenberg came awfully-close to winning the One Lap of America in a stone-stock geometry '69 Valiant using all factory parts, except for alloy wheels, Gatorback tires, modified Viper swaybar endlinks (which did not alter the geometry of the front end at all), and aftermarket shocks. He took second not in his class, but in the whole shebang. None of these high-priced replacement-suspension companies has ever even come close, if they've even tried at all. Nor has any other muscle-era car, including Stielow's insanely-modified '69 Camaro that was handily smoked by The Green Brick.

    I plan on adding adjustable strutrods to the green brick setup.
     
  12. 1970Duster

    1970Duster Well-Known Member

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    The one thing that would be great is the weight savings of the k member
     
  13. abodyjoe

    abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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    have you ever driven one with a rack in it?
     
  14. mopardude318

    mopardude318 Well-Known Member

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    It's okay Joe, He's not a BigBlockDarter..lol People who don't have one or don't know what they are, will never understand...
     
  15. 1970Duster

    1970Duster Well-Known Member

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    6k for upgrade but again it all depends on what your doing
     
  16. mopardude318

    mopardude318 Well-Known Member

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    It's all in the name of the game buddy...I spent almost 5g on mine almost 4 years ago.. I wanted the ultimate front end kit for handling, and it's a BIG plus that I can also run the deep rear sump oil pan I'm using, and also have all the header clearance I will ever need...
     
  17. 1970Duster

    1970Duster Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I run a 7 quart oil pan on my 340. I got TTi headers with full exhaust with x pipe, but then again my car is an auto not stick though the drive train is built I don't think I'll be road racing it though it would be fun
     
  18. 1970Duster

    1970Duster Well-Known Member

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    Oh sorry for jacking your thread
     
  19. illcuda65

    illcuda65 Well-Known Member

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    Hypothetically- I would love to get my 65 cuda into the 21st century of handling and performance. Where I struggle is if 6K was dropped for the alterktion front/rear kits, 1 K for brakes, 2 k for new wheel/tire combo- why keep the 318 w/350 ish HP when w/alterktion it may be wiser to up cubic inches to either gen 3 hemi or another powerplant..... Easily 15 K plus.... Would make the car awesome.....but that is a load of money....
     
  20. jerry6

    jerry6 Banned

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    I have a 70 Dart with power disk brakes kyb shocks and the big torsion bars . Handles and stops pretty well . Of course I drive like a sane person , no racing . But does drop anchor from 100 mph plus no problem . The stock disk set up from 70 up seems enough , unless you want show or race quality . Saw a rear disk kit for around $815.00 , reasonable . looked like an east upgrade install .
    By the way the modified suspension on the other cars in this thread are awesome ! If money were no object I might be tempted .

    One thing is I am looking into tightening up the steering , works fine but want more road feedback

    And back in the 70's with good shocks springs tires and sway bars my 340 was a canyon blaster , took it on many wild back road blasts .
     
  21. dartley

    dartley Well-Known Member

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    Someone mentioned that the Mustang II front end is wider. Didn't sound right to me. I just checked specs and the front track on that car was/is 57.5 in. the front track on the Duster is 59.1.

    OP, I strongly suggest you read Mopar Actions series of articles on brake and steering upgrades. Go to Mopar Actions web site and check for back articles you can order. Some of them are on line as well. This is GOOD information.

    The stock front and rear suspension is a good one and so is the steering - provided, of course, that it's in good shape! And there are a number of persons that actually do "race" their cars with a "basically" - if not fully - stock suspension, right here on this forum; in addition to Rick E (Green Brick, as mentioned). It was either the first or second year that American "Pony" cars ran in Trans Am racing, a Dart, Valiant or Barracuda (I can't remember which) won.

    If you look at that altercation rear end, the coil springs are INSIDE the rear frame rails. Leafs are on the outside, which is much better! If you doubt this, picture leaf springs just on either side of the differential and imagine how little control your rear suspension would have!

    I won't dis anyone who's bought and put on these "kits"; and if they say they work, fine; if they like them, fine. Many of us have or had any number of more modern cars with R&P, struts and IRS - and/or have driven any number of others. I have, including the present gen Mustang GT, and I own a Dodge Magnum R/T. So many of us do know what "modern" American cars handle like. The old A body suspension, when properly set up, just ain't that bad.

    I would love to actually see lap times of a good example of each type suspension on very similar cars, or hear from anyone who knows of such a comparison.

    And one last thing - once you go with these kits - it'll be practically impossible to turn back.
     
  22. GMachineDartGT

    GMachineDartGT Senior Member

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    A Mustang also, very nice Bill. I have to say that the factory steering box is the real problem on the A front end. Even with a good box, the ratio just sucks. If we could fit a long pitman with reasonable exhaust, that would be the best solution. Unfortunately, it would take an expensive custom drivers side header to acheive this properly.
     
  23. dartley

    dartley Well-Known Member

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    Hey Pete,

    I know you run top shelf stuff and have very hi aspirations - probably beyond what most of us feel is needed.

    But that said, 3.5 turns L-2-L is what we have, and that's what BMW ran in the early 90s IIRC. It's what my '93 Chrysler Concorde had too. I too think 2.5 turns would be better, but 3.5 isn't that bad for most of us. I know you know you can get closer with a smaller diameter steering wheel.
     
  24. abodyjoe

    abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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    ???? the alter-k is a bolt in deal. you could switch back to a stock k-frame with no problem at all. there is no welding done at all to install one. you remove a bump stop and drill two holes in the frame rail and thats it.


    you really need to drive a car with a rms suspension...
     
  25. dartley

    dartley Well-Known Member

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    If that's true, then my bad - I'd only seen demos/instructions wherein the installer was cutting off all the old mountings. Was this only done for a clean look, and not for clearance ... I don't know.

    As to driving a car with rms (your suspension?) ... I'd like that.