vacuum gauge to solve idle issue

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Thanks Dar. Got it fired up and out for rip today. I adjusted the choke by dialing the black choke housing. I verified voltage (10.5 V) to red power wire.
Idle screws out 1 1/2 turns initially then adjusted with rpm/tach. I could hear a rpm change when fine tuning drivers side but not so much with pass side.
I thinks its close but I stopped for gas and it seemed flooded once I was done fueling up? Not too hard a start tho.
Tomorrow I'll see how it acts from a cold start
In my pic from the manual you see they show different linkage rods for adjustments, not the top linkage??

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Thanks Dar. Got it fired up and out for rip today. I adjusted the choke by dialing the black choke housing. I verified voltage (10.5 V) to red power wire.
Idle screws out 1 1/2 turns initially then adjusted with rpm/tach. I could hear a rpm change when fine tuning drivers side but not so much with pass side.
I thinks its close but I stopped for gas and it seemed flooded once I was done fueling up? Not too hard a start tho.
Tomorrow I'll see how it acts from a cold start
In my pic from the manual you see they show different linkage rods for adjustments, not the top linkage??

They don't mention other adjustments, but they assume you have a stock engine, which you don't have, so you have to think outside the box sometimes to make things work on your engine...kind of the essence of hot-rodding, I think....
 
Lantern battery may have the volts, but no amps.That choke sucks power, that the lantern battery may not be able to supply.
-cranking the housing only changes how soon the choke comes on/off.
-adjusting the choke pull-off(vacuum-break) sets the A/F at start-up, and throughout the warm-up period.
-Make sure the timing is stable, at ONE fixed value, whatever it is.
-make sure the fast-idle cam is correctly set; usually on the second highest step.You don't want the engine reving too high during the warm-up period, and if the rpm is too far out of spec. it messes with the T-port sync, causing you to want to mess with the mixture screws.This would then cause the screws to be out after the engine warms up. No! Don't do it! The A/F during the warm-up is set with the position of the choke blade.
So,as you may have figured out, The T-port sync on a warmed up engine, is somewhat critical. It will set the baseline A/F under many operating conditions. If it is out, you will have warm-up issues. If you solve the warm up issues with a bad T-port sync, then you will have issues in the standard mode.
 
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So resurrecting old thread from last year. Rebuilt the factory Carter 4295S. Installed it, choke unhooked.
Pretty much fired right up. Idle mix screws are set close. Idles in park around 750 rpm.
1st test drive was not bad. A definite improvement but still "surges/stumbles" More so with steady throttle. Accelerating makes it go away. Temporarily.
Came home checked cap and rotor. Both looked good. Module and reluctor gap looked cockeyed. (See pic). They didnt look pparallel to each other. MP elec ign instructions say .008-.018" gap. I set it to .010" ar the tightest (bottom) spot.
I can move the module ever so slightly even when tightened down but not enough to align parallel to reluctor.
Dist bushings se tight, shaft appears straight. No wobble.
When I removed distributor it looked like there was oil on the inside but it could have came from me turning it upside down. I thought maybe a crack in distributor body that allowed oil to seep in?? Couldnt find any cracks.
Cleaned it and reinstalled.
Another test drive. Absolutely horrible.Almost constant surging, not so much at idle but at cruise and acceleration.
I took a few pics and video. I'll try to get them posted.
Thanks all.
1st pic is alignment issue
2nd pic is where I saw oil?

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The module "misalignment" matters not one bit. What you call a module is more commonly called a magnetic pick up. All it is is a little tiny magnetic field generator. When any reluctor tooth enters that field, the field strength changes. The ECU senses the change in the field strength and fires the coil. That's all there is to it. So parallelism plays no part in it, nor does the reluctor gap much.The reluctor gap just needs to be big enough so that it doesn't actually touch the pick-up when the Vcan starts tugging the base plate around, and small enough to ensure a strong signal is generated for the ECU. That is why the large spec. I have found by experimentation that the Orange-ECU will read the signal with any gap from zero to about .030, generated by the factory original pick-ups.So I set mine to about .013 and call it done.

Now, let's talk about the surge.
There are only three things that can cause a surge that varies with throttle;1) is the vcan hunting, which is super rare, and 2) is an unstable powervalve or dancing metering rods, and 3) is a lean low-speed circuit

So, plumb your vacuum gauge to manifold vacuum with a long enough hose to bring it into the cabin, or jam it under a wiperblade where you can read it while cruising, the take it for a ride and observe the gauge during the surging. Then head back to the shop. Now,start the engine, and loosen the metering rod piston covers. Rotate them a quarter turn and snug them down. Can you see the pistons? You need to see them. Next run the rpm up in park until the vacuum decreases to that noted during surging, and watch the pistons. If they start dancing,there is your problem; you will need different,lighter springs.They need to stay down.
If the rpm goes over 3600rpm abandon the test. Instead pull the PCV hose off the valve and introduce a vacuum leak there large enough to drop the gauge into the surge zone previously noted.
Ok so let's assume the pistons are firmly locked down. Shut off the engine and put everything back together. If the pistons were not dancing,then neither would the Vcan be.

So that just leaves a lean low-speed circuit.
This circuit is comprised mainly by the transfer slot, and any/all air leaking into the engine through or around the butterflies, and also thru the idle air bleeds. It is augumented by the idle discharge system. The carb was designed that with a correct wet-fuel-level, and when these two are in the correct working relationship, then there will be no surging.
This correct relationship is known as the T-port sync.So click on the little blue M below, and get your T-port sync set up; then a take her out for a new roadtest.

Now let's talk about your surge,lol. The above is for a steady-state surge. Your surge is no surge at all. Pull a couple of plugs out. My guess is they will be carbon fouled from running very rich. If not, then the ignition system is crapp. Or the pick-up polarity is reversed.
So what say the plugs?
 
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Steve... Do you have another distributor to try?
No spare distributor Dar. Could use one now lol
The module "misalignment" matters not one bit. What you call a module is more commonly called a magnetic pick up. All it is is a little tiny magnetic field generator. When any reluctor tooth enters that field, the field strength changes. The ECU senses the change in the field strength and fires the coil. That's all there is to it. So parallelism plays no part in it, nor does the reluctor gap much.The reluctor gap just needs to be big enough so that it doesn't actually touch the pick-up when the Vcan starts tugging the base plate around, and small enough to ensure a strong signal is generated for the ECU. That is why the large spec. I have found by experimentation that the Orange-ECU will read the signal with any gap from zero to about .030, generated by the factory original pick-ups.So I set mine to about .013 and call it done.

Now, let's talk about the surge.
There are only three things that can cause a surge that varies with throttle;1) is the vcan hunting, which is super rare, and 2) is an unstable powervalve or dancing metering rods, and 3) is a lean low-speed circuit

So, plumb your vacuum gauge to manifold vacuum with a long enough hose to bring it into the cabin, or jam it under a wiperblade where you can read it while cruising, the take it for a ride and observe the gauge during the surging. Then head back to the shop. Now,start the engine, and loosen the metering rod piston covers. Rotate them a quarter turn and snug them down. Can you see the pistons? You need to see them. Next run the rpm up in park until the vacuum decreases to that noted during surging, and watch the pistons. If they start dancing,there is your problem; you will need different,lighter springs.They need to stay down.
If the rpm goes over 3600rpm abandon the test. Instead pull the PCV hose off the valve and introduce a vacuum leak there large enough to drop the gauge into the surge zone previously noted.
Ok so let's assume the pistons are firmly locked down. Shut off the engine and put everything back together. If the pistons were not dancing,then neither would the Vcan be.

So that just leaves a lean low-speed circuit.
This circuit is comprised mainly by the transfer slot, and any/all air leaking into the engine through or around the butterflies, and also thru the idle air bleeds. It is augumented by the idle discharge system. The carb was designed that with a correct wet-fuel-level, and when these two are in the correct working relationship, then there will be no surging.
This correct relationship is known as the T-port sync.So click on the little blue M below, and get your T-port sync set up; then a take her out for a new roadtest.

Now let's talk about your surge,lol. The above is for a steady-state surge. Your surge is no surge at all. Pull a couple of plugs out. My guess is they will be carbon fouled from running very rich. If not, then the ignition system is crapp. Or the pick-up polarity is reversed.
So what say the plugs?

Thanks AJ. On the 4295S manifold vacuum is on pass side connected to choke unloader? Heres a pic before the rebuild. For the 2 test drives I plugged the port sticking out pass side. Port at front pass side hooked to vac can and pvc to front centre

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The Vcan signal is not to be shared with any other device. The port must show zero vacuum at idle, and in neutral often requires 1500rpm or more to become active;this is normal.

Have you pulled a couple of plugs yet?
 
Got sidetracked today fixing mower and painting front entrance way.
Pulled distributor from 1/2 ton. Friggin pain in the arse! Pulling spark plugs is way easier. Which I haven't done yet. I do know I put new in last year so maybe 500 miles.
So get dist out. Greasy grimey, rusty inside. Put vacuum to can and it held.
Then I notice the rotor and drive slot is clocked different. See pics. Had to move each plug wire clockwise on cap.
Fired right up. Had to advance a bit by ear. Let it warm up and then out for a spin. 20 minutes and no stumble/surge.
Gonna look over the other dist and see if I can find the issue.
Going to try and get timing dialed in tomorrow and see what i can do with carb. Ill update as I go.
Trucks dead in the driveway now so gotta get another distributor. Not looking forward to climbing up under the hood.

Thanks guys!

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The reluctor in your pic looks to be rubbing on the pickup....could that be your problem?

Re: clocking problem....you probably could have just re-indexed the intermediate shaft in your 273.
 
For me it was quicker to move plug wires ahead by one hole.
The "old" distributor was gapped to .012" and put back in. Then it ran horrible. (Previous video)
Also when I swapped dist. last night and looked it over. It looked like oil in the distributor again??
I checked it.over but couldn't find and cracks. Is it possible for oil to suck up by the lower bushing?
Its pretty much spotless other than the oil?
Thanks!
View attachment 1715055898

The reluctor in your pic looks to be rubbing on the pickup....could that be your problem?

Re: clocking problem....you probably could have just re-indexed the intermediate shaft in your 273.
 
Oil can get blown up past the bushings and end up in the bottom of the housing. There is a drain hole there for it to escape. This is a natural oiling system. The mechanism that brings the oil up there is called blow-by, or crankcase pressure. The PCV is supposed to minimize this pressure but as the rings wear out, the minimizing gets less and less. I have seen engines puffing so hard the dipstick wouldn't stay down. A little oil in the bushings is a good thing. Unless the bushings are so worn that the reluctor gap will not stay constant.
 
For me it was quicker to move plug wires ahead by one hole.
The "old" distributor was gapped to .012" and put back in. Then it ran horrible. (Previous video)
Also when I swapped dist. last night and looked it over. It looked like oil in the distributor again??
I checked it.over but couldn't find and cracks. Is it possible for oil to suck up by the lower bushing?
Its pretty much spotless other than the oil?
Thanks!

Sounds like you've found your problem..... now you just need to find a used dizzy for your truck!
 
Thats Great!!...Glad you found it Steve!!

Now you can clean up your workbench!....LOL (Looks like mine!)
 
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So now the surging issue has been solved with distributor swap.
I wanted to fine tune the timing. I decided to leave factory 4bl Carter carb and the distributor from 84 360 1/2 ton in the cuda.
I have vac gauge, Mighty Vac, old school timing light and tach.
Verified tdc.
Initial 20* (vac can plugged, gauge hooked to ported vac on carb)
3.8" hg
575 rpm idle in gear
37* all in @ 3300 rpm
18" hg @ 3300 rpm
Approx 55-57* with vac hooked up.
Vac can has 7r stamped on the arm.
Suggestions/advice/improvements?
I seem to be able to advance to the point of 30* initial? (no pinging) Why so high?

Thanks all
 
Ok at this point I'm trying to set timing. I figgered since its related to this thread, I would piggy back onto this.
I will say carb tuning is needed as its running rich as hell. See pic of exhaust marks on lawn. Thats at idle and 5 minutes of run time lol.
1st things 1st. Timing.
Carb 4295S (rebuilt by me)
No choke
Elec ign factory distributor
7r vac can=14* crank timing
Engine warmed up
Vac gauge hooked to ported vac on carb.
Vac can hose plugged.
775 rpm (in park)
5" HG
25* initial timing
45* all in @ 3500 rpm, 19" HG.(vac plugged)
Other readings I took.
@2000 rpm, I got 35* timing (vac plugged)17.5" HG
Initial seems really high (25) BUT no pinging.
Any ideas as to where to go from here?
Thanks
Steve

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I'm guessing your valve timing took a jump or your intake valves are not closing.
That cam is too small to make only 5" of vacuum at 775 idle and 25* of lead.
And the vacuum should peak at a higher number Too.I'm guessing your Metering rods are not staying down.

The cam specs are 270/270/110 @+4, and 224/224@.050, and .468 lift and .022 lash. That should idle at nearly double your 5".
 
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Ok so checked metering rods and at idle they are all the way down. These are the original springs from my winter rebuild. So I'm assuming stock?
Bumped up initial to 30* still no ping. Steep hill at 25 mph, then accelerated (moderately) no ping.
At idle in park 30* initial (vac un hooked and plugged) BUT vac dropped to 3"HG.
I do have spare springs and metering rods for an Eddy to tweak, but was trying to get timing figured out first.
Cam specs you mentioned are correct
Thanks for reply!
I'm guessing your valve timing took a jump or your intake valves are not closing.
That cam is too small to make only 5" of vacuum at 775 idle and 25* of lead.
And the vacuum should peak at a higher number Too.I'm guessing your Metering rods are not staying down.

The cam specs are 270/270/110 @+4, and 224/224@.050, and .468 lift and .022 lash. That should idle at nearly double your 5".
 
30* initial???? Geez, I can't get mine more than about 15*, or it kicks against the starter.


Where is you vac gauge hooked up again? It should be on the UN ported, or manifold vacuum port, lower right, on the carb.

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