Very noisy Sniper 2. Holley say this is normal

-
I am assuming the injectors are different between Sniper 1 and 2. I know there were connector issues on the first one that are supposedly now addressed. I read that the Sniper 1 injectors are the same as other Holley injection systems and can be bought separately. I asked Holley Support if I could buy replacement injectors for the Sniper 2 and was told not. Google searches haven't yet come up with a source of replacements. Seems a real drop off if these units are to be fitted to classic cars. Most of the vehicles I have owned with fuel injection have needed new injectors after 10 years or so.
 

Headintheclouds said:
A friend with much the same car has the same in tank pump and returnless setup with a Sniper 1 and that is all but silent, albeit with a bit of pump noise.
If I knew for sure that running a regulator at the Sniper and installing a return would kill the injector noise I think I would do it but I have no way of telling. I don't know of anyone with a quiet Sniper 2 and Holley Support told me the noise mine makes is normal. It would be a significant expense to buy a new return style pump and separate regulator. I would need to be pretty sure of success to add that cost to what I have already shelled out.
Click to expand...
The manual for Sniper 1 says not to deadhead or run returnless fuel delivery. You must run a return line - equivalent to the delivery, or at least -6AN.

I tried to dead-head initially but found immediate issues. The drawings were a bit confusing at first. Retun lines help to keep a fuel flow and keep the Sniper running a bit cooler with a constant flow of fresh fuel from the tank.

I also changed out my Holley inline pump for an -in-tank Holley pump....and the noise dropped right away. The inline pumps are very noisy...given they are traditionally bolted to the chassis rail. Also, I had two bad Holley inline pumps from new. One lasted about ten minutes. The first last long enough to get me stranded about 5 miles from nowhere.
 
Headintheclouds said:
If it were as quiet as a friend's Sniper 1 I would be a very happy chap.
Click to expand...

For what (little) it's worth, I recall the injectors being inaudible on a 318 with Fitech and a very quiet stock exhaust system.

Headintheclouds said:
Holley support has been quite good so far
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree with you. "That's normal" is a fob-off intended to evade responsibility and get you off the phone. Just like their offer that if you send it back they'll "take a look at it" (i.e., leave it in the corner for a few weeks then send it back) is meant to make you go away.

Headintheclouds said:
One of the guys on Holley support suggested that having a return might quieten it down some but equally it might make no difference.
Click to expand...

Okeh, so at best they're guessing. This while they're acknowledging this system's incomplete development and faulty implementation ("that's normal"), while simultaneously refusing to take any responsibility whatever for it. Nice.

Erm…why are you giving money to these people? This is what they do and how they do it.

Headintheclouds said:
Perhaps I am expecting too much
Click to expand...

No, you aren't. This is 2025. Fuel injection has been a high-volume, mass-market thing on car engines for over half a century. Making such a system work properly and quietly isn't uncharted territory. Even Holley themselves know how to make silent throttle body injectors, and have for decades. The TBI setup Chrysler installed on the 318 in my 1989 Dodge pickup was halfaѕѕed Holley hardware driven by Chrysler's crummy code, but injector noise was not one of its flaws.

Headintheclouds said:
but I would have hoped the Holley tech staff would have had some better answers.
Click to expand...

"Holley tech staff" know nothing but what's been put in front of them; they're reading the same material you can read yourself, and augmenting it with guesses. These aren't engineers or mechanics, they're low-paid phone monkeys running ZenDesk. Have you tried switching it off and back on again? Sorry, a supervisor is not available right now.

Headintheclouds said:
I feel as though I am doing unpaid research and development.
Click to expand...
Because you are.

Headintheclouds said:
My suspicion is that the quality is variable and quality control poor
Click to expand...

From Holley? Whot? Surely not! Pull the other leg, man, it jingles!
Holley have earned this snark from me numerous times over, across many years. Even if we disregard everything from them except EFI systems, the list is still substantial. On it along with that garbage they sold Chrysler was their ProJection EFI system. It came before the Sniper, which was their response to it getting out that the ProJection system was crap.

Headintheclouds said:
so it's a bit of a lottery how noisy an individual unit will be. (…) if possible, try to listen to a few at idle before you part with your cash.
Click to expand...

In context of "variable" (you're being much too diplomatic) quality and poor quality control, I think the noise, while unacceptable, would not be at the top of the list of reasons to recognise this road you're on, belatedly, as a wrong turn.

Headintheclouds said:
injectors are not available as spare parts
Click to expand...

This right here should kick the system right off the consideration list. Even good injectors sometimes fail, or need to be taken out of service for a proper cleaning. No spare parts available? Seriously? Fail.

Headintheclouds said:
I have caved in and bought a second unit
Click to expand...

You're in it up past your ears; might be good to stop digging and consider your other options.
 
I think the Sniper 1 has a regulator built in unlike the later model. The kit of parts I bought was recommended as a setup that would play nicely.
 
The problem with recommendations by the maker or vendor is the multiple interests: maximise sales? Tell the truth to the enquiror/customer and serve their needs?

If the product is genuinely good and backed up by solid, correct advice, there's not much of any conflict. If the product requires a bunch of asterisks and handwaving and bulk wrap and hype, well…the interests conflict.

Holley aren't alone in choosing to make the cash register ring as much and as loudly as possible over any/all other interests, hence the asterisks and handwaving and bulk wrap and hype.
 
Uncle Bob said:
Carburetors don't make funny noises.

Some things aren't worth the cost of owning.

IMO serpentine belt systems are another one.

Solutions in search of problems.
Click to expand...
Like hell they don't. Some of the old AFBs "whistled" at idle. I'm talking about the ones with "three knobs" the two idle screws and the big air control in the center.

And ANYBODY who has ever "improved" the air valve on a Q jet or T quad knows THEY MAKE funny noises.

Bwap BAWAAAAAAAAA LOLOLOL
 
Both carbs and EFI have their benefits and EFI is getting better all the time. Carbs are great but if they were that good current production cars would still have them. They are brilliant for folks to quickly and easily get good performance at reasonable cost without too much grief.
My Carter AFB was worn and had a design fault with the floats that caused it to bog on long hard corners. The Edelbrock that replaced it was much better and performed well from the off but I never got a really smooth idle.
The Sniper gave a really smooth idle from the off, drives really well when the engine is warming up and starts much more readily. I haven't got the timing fully sorted yet but when I do I am hoping for significantly better fuel economy. Once it is running well I can save the file and transfer to another unit so no tuning will be required if I have to replace it. The only real issue is the noise and that is a price worth paying if I have to. I didn't start the thread to bash Holley. I just want others to know the potential shortcomings of the Sniper before they part with their cash.

Living in the land of UK I find it quite hard to know what is available for my engine. The Sniper and Hyperspark is a neat kit that I knew would bolt straight on to my 318 Poly. The Fitech looks pretty neat but will it work with and control the timing on the Ready to Run distributor in the SB Mopar?
 
regardless of noise i still think buying a package that all works together is a benefit.

you are suffering the "US company supplies someone not in America" problem. the Canadians might not suffer as much, Close proximity, but the Aussies and the Europeans will know exactly what i'm talking about. The supplier knows we are not going to turn up face to face to have a "conversation" about it.

As you have discovered they really couldn't give a toss. lucky you didn't import a restored car or a performance engine. you'd just have to do it all again when it gets here.
Based on anecdotal evidence and my own experiences over the last 25 years YES i do have trust issues with American suppliers, its never their fault, they can do no wrong, some big names will happily polish a turd, box it, and send it knowing full well that you have no recourse for compensation, they don't need or want you as a customer again.

these days I would go out of my way to avoid buying direct, and get a US car parts business in the UK to get the product.
someone local, to deal with the crap that comes from the supplier. Also if they won't import it or they have had unsatisfactory outcome with that part or supplier before they will tell you. A business will only be stung once..

I've got a south african ECU, 3 DCOE chinese throttle bodies, Volvo Bosch injectors, a BMW TPS an ELB dizzy Lucas oil and water temp senders

A 38 way and a 24 way connector with pigtails
Strangely my enthusiasm has waned somewhat for this project as the mountain i will have to climb just seems too big

so as i say before I ranted on. There are benefits in buying a more or less ready to run system regardless of its propensity to chatter.

if you had built it all yourself and it made a funny noise, you'd be ignoring it, and reveling in the fact that you got it all to hang together :)

You have avoided sticking it on the shelf and not installing it, like I've done.

Dave
 
Dave999 said:
you are suffering the "US company supplies someone not in America" problem. the Canadians might not suffer as much, Close proximity, but the Aussies and the Europeans will know exactly what i'm talking about. The supplier knows we are not going to turn up face to face to have a "conversation" about it.
Click to expand...
:thumbsup:

I had that exchange of messages with Holley when mine was playing up - turned out to be an easy self-fix with about 15 cents worth of cable ties and an hour of labour.

The Holley Tech/Rep expected me to send my used Sniper back to them for evaluation and possible repair. They also expected me to pay for shipping both ways, and of course their labour charges since I was just out of warranty - that usually expires on the boat ride over here. :rolleyes:

Can you imagine what would happen if I tried sending a used Holley Sniper in the post to USA? :lol: I doubt I would ever get it back.
 
I'll say this about the Holley EFI products, they are designed from the ground up to hit a certain price-point at a certain pin-point target market. I think they nailed it in that regard but their service and reliability is not good, that's just what you get with big conglomerates. If you look around the market, at each ECU "level" there's someone in EU or AUS selling a product that blows the Holley stuff away.
 
Everything is a project right?
Maybe drop the tank and see if the pump and regulator are two separate detachable units. If you can feed the sniper and also continue to a regulator, you might try running the regulator after the sniper, but just run the return into a gas can using hose before going through the expense of hard line and tank fittings etc. to see if that makes a difference.
I have a sniper stealth, and it is noisier than I would like, but not enough that I would make a project out of it yet. I have other things to address first.
 
Great suggestion about temporary return to a gas can. Thank you!
I think the regulator is in the head casting which has 3 ports including the vent so it should be straightforward to bypass.
 
After a bit more thought I reckon I can run a test with my existing fuel pump if I set the external regulator to about 55PSI - just lower than the in tank regulator at 60PSI. It still means spending about another $150 on something I may not use but I think it's the only way to know if running a returnless system is what is making it noisy.
 
in a returnless system i guess the regulator is always playing catch up, you are aiming at a pressure that will only ever be an average/mean. so the pressure at the injectors will vary above and below what is set. and the only way to reduce that pressure when it is above is through the injectors.... MIGHT mean louder operation. so even if noisy only when pressure is a bit too high. that will be 50% of the time.

with a return set up, the regulator is a calibrated leak back to the tank.. i.e it lets the fuel return when the pressure is over what you set... i can imagine that the injectors probably see a more stable pressure. its still aiming at an average, like the other method, but the route to reduced pressure is not via the injector, it just makes its way back to the tank...

and the fuel will be cooler...

your car, if it is pre appox. 1972 1973 will probably have a fuel filler pipe that has 2 connections to it before you get the the fuel filler cap on the outside of the car, that you can't easily see.
1 is a thin pipe used to vent the tank
the other is a fat pipe 1/4 or 1/2 inch plumbed from the side of the filler tube down to a connection on the side of the tank. it helps to avoid blowback when using a fast petrol pump

a T piece in that pipe might be a useful place to plumb in a return. when you are filling the car it ain't running and when your car is running you are not filling it with fuel... so it seems like an option to me.
saves you drilling holes for bulkhead fittings or swapping to a 2 outlet tank sender both of which could be a bit of a pain in the ***.

Dave
 
Last edited:
Update on the noisy Sniper. I took RogerRamRod's idea and ran with it:

Still with the in tank pump with built in regulator I removed the pulse damper from the second port on the sniper and connected a stand alone regulator with a return hose to the fuel filler. With the regulator screwed down the fuel pressure was limited to about 61PSI by the in tank regulator. I wound out the external regulator to give a pressure of 55PSI which is still enough for the Sniper and had a healthy stream of gas going back into the tank.
The racket from the injectors continued unabated.... So, more pocket money spent doing Holley's R&D for them so yet again better informed but none the wiser. I still think the Sniper is a great product but I wish it wasn't so loud!
 
If you're spending additional time & money doing Holley's R&D, and it is still not what you expected, it's far from a great product.

I've seen multiple people go through similar situations and, for whatever reason, claim the product/person/company is still great, or worse make excuses for them.

My guess is individuals feel a kinship, a sympathy, towards the product and company.
Not sure.

Case in point, the old A855 debacle, laid out in front of everyone, daily. Even the guy going through it, myself, at the least I relayed their excuses to everyone as if they were legitimate, at the worst I may have made excuses.
All because I spent a ton of time & money, and what I initially paid for I did not get.

Bottom line, letter sent:

SUBJECT: A833 5 SPEED GEARBOX PRODUCT IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY and BREACH OF CONTRACT

In my opinion, based on what you've gone through so far, you did nothing wrong. Get your money back.
 
I agree, get your money back.


Holley is so worried about buying companies up, they don’t give a **** about their own products.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-
Back
Top Bottom