VINTAGE ROAD RACING QUESTION

Mopar Racers Forum

  1. Troub

    Troub 67 Dart 270, 225 slant six

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    Greetings!
    While still in the midst of restoring my 67 Dart Ive decided to point the resto towards some SVRA racing. Being that the 273 was the biggest offering for the Dart in 67 I need to source one to replace my slant six. Will it have to be correctly 67 date coded or can it be any pre-1972 block? The rule sheet isn’t clear and I’m a novice so any vintage racers out there?
    Your help would be appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Troub
     
  2. Scody21

    Scody21 Just send it

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    My brother builds vintage Cosworth/Ford DFV’s, BDA’s aka 1600’s, Lotus 1600 Twin Cams, BDG’s aka 2,000’s, Hart 420r’s and other motors for vintage F1, F2, formula fords (FF) and such that run in CSRG and SVRA. From what I have helped him with, dates on blocks don’t matter. It’s that the motor is build to the cubic inch, or CC that is specific to said class and car of that period. (You don’t want to be the guy in the class that gets called a cheater and get a motor tare down.) He built a DFV over the winter for 1975 Shadow DN5 that has a brand new block, that was cast in 2019 with new cams, valves pistons, etc. Also Ford / cosworth is casting new blocks for the BDA for FF because there is such a demand for that motor. each rebuild gets new pistons, (bores are honed about .0004 each rebuild), valves and other necessary parts. Look at all of the old 289 Mustangs that are running, you think all of them are running old blocks, some but not all...
     
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    • autoxcuda

      autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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      Need to talk to that region SVRA. And go to races and talk to guys racing.

      They might allow a 67 to have 1970 rules. And that would allow non-production 5.0 liter limits (302)
       
      Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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      • Professor Fate

        Professor Fate Push the button, Max...

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        Well, just to spice things up a bit, the 273 wasn't the biggest offering in the Dart in '67, the 383 was.
        516081-1000-0@2x.jpg

        516091-1000-0.jpg 516141-1000-0.jpg

        Don't know if the class rules will let you run a B motor, though.
         
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        • 70dart340

          70dart340 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          • autoxcuda

            autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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            before 1970 is was production displacement motors with 5 liter limit

            1970 and after is ok for non-production 5 liter displacements with production blocks and heads.
             
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            • Troub

              Troub 67 Dart 270, 225 slant six

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              Thanks to all you guys for the replies!
              Very much appreciated!
               
            • Troub

              Troub 67 Dart 270, 225 slant six

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              I certainly do!
              Looks like I’ll need An A-833 tranny for that 273? I didn’t see a lot of info on tranny rules in the Group Six SVRA notes.
               
            • loganscuda

              loganscuda DON’T reMember

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              Put in a 3.6 pentastar. 292hp:poke:
               
            • Scody21

              Scody21 Just send it

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              Won’t pass tech, that is a modern motor.
               
            • Professor Fate

              Professor Fate Push the button, Max...

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              I realize that, but B block cars can be made to handle- this ain't the sixties. Ask Bergman. Parts selection (within the rules) can go a long way towards offsetting the weight penalty over a smallblock, too. And stock displacement vs. stock displacement, you're gaining 110 c.i. over a 273.
              That being said, he is still limited by sanctioning body rules for the class he chooses to run. I just brought it up to clarify the "biggest offering in '67" statement.
               
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              • 70 Buster 340

                70 Buster 340 Carbon Footprint FABO Gold Member

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                Who's got a 305 T/A crank ? :eek:
                 
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                • Troub

                  Troub 67 Dart 270, 225 slant six

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                  Do transmissions need to be date coded or period as well? Again, I’m not finding much in the rules on it.
                   
                • Troub

                  Troub 67 Dart 270, 225 slant six

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                  upload_2021-6-11_13-38-2.png
                  Great pics!
                   
                • Troub

                  Troub 67 Dart 270, 225 slant six

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                • Scody21

                  Scody21 Just send it

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                  Same as I said in my prior post. Has to be period correct. Look at Hewland gear boxes. They still make the housing and parts for 40+ year old gear boxes...

                  Best to go to a race weekend and talk to the racers and tech Stewarts. Most of the time the tech Stewart’s are racers or car builders and will have the answers to your questions about the rules depending on class. Most of the time in vintage racing, the car must be presented as they were back in the day, but safety equipment is current. Cages, seats, etc. also, last summer, I helped my brother assemble a 1975 Ralt RT1 formula Atlantic. The tub (chassis, cockpit) was built in, wait for it...

                  March / April of 2020... a full copy of the prior tub, which is pieces and kept. The car is presented as it was back in the day..
                   
                  Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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                  • 66fs

                    66fs FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    • 70 Buster 340

                      70 Buster 340 Carbon Footprint FABO Gold Member

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                      5.0 L Class

                      305 is pretty close....lol
                       
                    • mvh

                      mvh FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      Generally speaking, I would imagine that they are not insisting that the actual parts be 54 years old (that would hardly be safe, and would result in the gradual elimination of all competitors via attrition) — they just want them to be the same configuration and type.
                       
                      Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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                      • 70dart340

                        70dart340 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        The Challenger T/A's and 'Cuda AAR's all ran destroked 340 6 pack engines in 1970.. They were fragile back in the day, but ran with the best of the rest. Maybe some info from Dan Gurney could help for a period correct race car. I have several old books. The infamous "D" Darts of 1966 and 1967 would be worth researching, too. They were very competitive back in the day. Paul.
                         
                        Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
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                        • 66fs

                          66fs FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          I guess you never drove an original big block A Body. They are not handling challenged.
                           
                        • autoxcuda

                          autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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                          the 66 D-darts were intended for classed drag racing. There was one that happened to used for a regional SCCA A-sedan car. The competitive Mopar 1966 Trans Am cars were not developed from those. The 1966 Team Starfish Barracuda was crewed by Chrysler employees after hours.

                          there’s nothing really unique on a D-dart that transfers to Trans Am rules. Carb, cam, headers can be changed in Trans Am rules.

                          I’m not sure I would call the 1970 305 mopar motors “fragile”. This was their 1st year back in competitive trans am since the 1st year of trans am; 1966. BTW one of the old 305 Trans Am motors finished 3rd at the 1971 Daytona 500.

                          From 1967 to 1969 Trans Am got serious with factory support and teams. The Chevy, Ford, AMC, Pontiac cars got a lot of factory support. Way beyond what Mopar put into the 1966 effort. So, when Dodge and Plymouth jumped back in 1970 they were way behind in the development curve.

                          Some of the 1970 DNF’s that look like motor issues were due to other things. Like transmission issues. Tranny not working right will over-rev a engine. Then disaster.

                          Then mid 1970 season Chrysler cut the funding. And from the start Chrysler didn’t put near the funding and support that Ford did. For example, there’s pics of 69 Mustang Trans Am race cars put in wind tunnels with 1970 year updates on them. In 1970 AMC threw big bucks at Penske, proven ‘69 Champ, to switch.

                          Also the 1970 Dodge and Plymouth teams were competitive against each other. The motors were developed at first together then branched off. It wasn’t a 100% sharing harmony between the teams.

                          There weren’t partnership motor programs back then, like we see today.
                           
                          Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
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                          • 70dart340

                            70dart340 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                            No, I never had that chance. I drove a home built 440 Dart, and it didn't turn nicely.
                             
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                            • 66fs

                              66fs FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                              It all depends on how they are set up. If you want to drag race is one way, probably what you experienced. Factory big block cars came with stiffer chassis (torque boxes) heavier torsion bars, rear springs, front sway bar, and shocks. They handle just fine. With newer stuff available probably super.
                               
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