Voltage regulator

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mopar4

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I have a 1967 dart with a 273 and the old style voltage regulator and I would like to convert it to the more modern electronic style can this be done? If so could some one walk me thru the conversion, thanks in advance.
 
You can use a 70/ later alternator--which has BOTH field connections isolated from ground, correctly called "isolated field," often INcorrectly called "dual field."

You have to add one wire to the 70/ later regulator

---OR---

BUT You can buy 69/ earlier regulators, MOST of 'em nowadays, even though they look similar to original, ARE solid state.

Use ONLY Echlin VR-1001, or Standard (Blue Streak) VR-128. Many others are, well, junk

Easy way to tell on the 69/ older if it is modernised electronic or old school mechanical, is look underneath. Mechanical ones will have one or two big wirewould resistors underneath.

Simplified wiring diagram posted in links at end. Basically you need to run switched 12V to the second field terminal. Existing "green" from regulator to field can be re-used if in good shape, as can the IGN feed to the regulator.

ONE THING YOU NEED TO DO with ANY charging system, especially now that you are "on" it is CHECK charging voltage. With engine warm (to warm regulator) check voltage across battery at a good fast idle. Should be 14V optimum, 13.5-14.5 OK. Turn on all loads, you might have to increase engine RPM to simulate "low cruise." Voltage should not drop below 13.5 on a charged battery.

If voltage is HIGH with no loads turned on, check your HARNESS for voltage drop, and the GROUND circuit.

To check the GROUND, with the engine running as above, stab one probe of your meter, set to "low DC volts" onto the battery NEG terminal.

Stab the other probe on the regulator mounting frame, and be sure to stab through any paint, rust, chrome. You are looking for a very low reading, the lower the better. Anything over .2V (two tenths of a volt) means the ground circuit needs attention. Battery to block--to body.

To check for HARNESS drop, shut off the engine, turn the key to "run." engine off. Stab one probe onto the battery POS post, and the other onto the IGN feed to the regulator or coil resistor.

Here again, you want a low reading. Over .2V (two tenths) try to improve things, .3 or more, work harder, and anything approaching or over 1/2 Volt or more, get SERIOUS

Remove inspect, repair, or bypass the bulkhead connector. Check the entire circuit path from

BATTERY -- FUSE LINK --BULKHEAD CONNECTOR -- AMMETER CIRCUIT -- IGNTION switch connector -- THROUGH the ignition switch -- BACK OUT the IGN switch connector -- BACK OUT the bulkhead connector on the DARK BLUE IGN "run" wire

Anywhere along this path can be one or more bad connections, including the switch itself.

A voltage drop here will cause OVERcharging by the amount of the drop, IE the regulator can be doing it's job at 14V, but if you have a 1/2 Volt drop in the IGN harness, that 1/2 volt will be ADDED to the charging voltage, and same for the drop in the GROUND side of things.

Some reading:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=78

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/Dual_Field_Alternator_Wiring.jpg

http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml

from the above link, especially THIS:

http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml
 
There is a solid state regulator available today that is a direct replacement for your mechanical regulator. The modern one even looks identical. Search ebay motors for more info
 
There is a solid state regulator available today that is a direct replacement for your mechanical regulator. The modern one even looks identical. Search ebay motors for more info

Red, as I said above, most replacement ones sold today are actually solid state "under the box." I haven't checked, for all I know they all are by now.

It's a lot cheaper to build a PC board than to adjust a precision relay.
 
67Dart273:
Use ONLY Echlin VR-1001, or Standard (Blue Streak) VR-128. Many others are, well, junk


These two regulators will bolt right up to the same place as your old mechanical voltage regulator, and the wires have the same connections. It just looks like a silver rectangular metal box. Plug and play baby…

If you are running electronic spark control (orange box or equivalent) it is recommended to convert to solid state voltage regulation for the health of that device.
 
My volt gage in da fish drops to about 12 from 14 when I turn on the lights. Must be real old stuff.
 
My volt gage in da fish drops to about 12 from 14 when I turn on the lights. Must be real old stuff.

You really should start another thread and ask this as a question. You MAY have wiring issues, or you may have one or two diodes blown in the alternator, which reduces the output.
 
I just got a standard VR-128 on amazon for $15! seems to be the real deal, stamped made in the USA on the side. so far so good.
 
so im doing this same thing on my 68 barracuda. I'm rewiring the entire car with all new stuff, and eliminating the ammeter. I have a 70's square back alt. with the 2 isolated feeds. are those V/R's offered by summit any good?

whats with the "race only" unit?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-3690731/

heres a vr125:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SMP-VR125/

and restoration unit:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-4529794/

comments on any of those?

also, where do I get a NEW plug for these? I'd like a new one if they are available....

thanks.

-james
 
There has been controversy about the "race only" units ever since they appeared. They claim to be "constant output", hell that's what a VR is SUPPOSED to do.

I would buy a local Standard Blue Streak and no other. NAPA and others should be able to produce a pigtail.

You can ALSO just ground either field terminal of your isolated field squareback and use the "old style" regulator. Use a Blue Streak no. VR-128 which has a different appearance than the 69/ earlier unit, but wires up the same way.
 
There has been controversy about the "race only" units ever since they appeared. They claim to be "constant output", hell that's what a VR is SUPPOSED to do.

I would buy a local Standard Blue Streak and no other. NAPA and others should be able to produce a pigtail.

You can ALSO just ground either field terminal of your isolated field squareback and use the "old style" regulator. Use a Blue Streak no. VR-128 which has a different appearance than the 69/ earlier unit, but wires up the same way.

okay thanks. went down to napa today to get a vr 128. that comes up as a gm style 3 prong mechanical regulator. so i told him i need an echlin brand solid state regulator for a chrysler. part number for that is a VR-38.
 
No. Something is wrong. You want a Standard Blue Streak Vr-128. Like this:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Ignition-VR128-Volt-Reg/dp/B000CQ1YJ8"]Amazon.com: Standard Ignition VR128 Volt Reg: Automotive[/ame]

The Echlin no. is VR-1001

EDIT Sorry I steered you wrong. I was off thinking you were going to use the early style (69/ earlier) regulator
 
You have to watch using the blue race unit, it will over charge the battery making it very hot on the street, thats why it is a race unit only.
 
You have to watch using the blue race unit, it will over charge the battery making it very hot on the street, thats why it is a race unit only.



That is correct, it charges at a higher voltage, will boil electrolyte with continuous street use which will kill your battery. Also it may be charging at a high enough rate to shorten life of bulbs as well. These things are for trailer queens.
 
okay kool. anyone know the part number for a standard/blue streak solid state regulator? (70 & later style)
 
You want a Standard Blue Streak Vr-128. Like this:

Amazon.com: Standard Ignition VR128 Volt Reg: Automotive

The Echlin no. is VR-1001
Wow. $47 is a lot. I got an electronic VR recently for $11, at www.rockauto.com as I recall. Mine was also silver, but thinner, similar shape as the later 2-wire type, but with connectors for the 60's Mopars (no flying lead).

Be careful about the factory looking large black box type. I see many on ebay that appear to be the original mechanical relay type, with wirewound resistors on the bottom. I have ~6 in my parts box I would like to get rid of.

67Dart273 is correct that you can install a 70's square-back alternator and use your standard 1-wire field setup by just grounding one field terminal. Doesn't matter which one, but I recall one has "gnd" in the casting. 1-wire field control is actually more modern electronics. They only did the 2-wire design because "low-side switching" is easier with transistors, but "high-side switching" is simple today. If you go with the 2-wire field, you need the unique triangular connector for the VR.

The square-back alt supposedly gives more output current (70A peak?). I never had trouble with the round-back alt in my Newport keeping the battery charged, and I have TBI injection and an electric fuel pump. I did have a diode fail once (no cost, Autozone lifetime warranty). The squareback alt in my 82 Aries used to vaporize diodes almost yearly, like clockwork, always the ones that hang in the air, visible thru the slots, so easy to diagnose on the road (got good at changing them). I got them to last 2 years by cutting cooling slots. It might have been a problem with that K-car. I put a squareback alt in my 65 Dart, so will see if that problem recurs.
 
just an update:

Got me a 70-newer solid state unit V/R. I made a bracket that mounts it to the factory location of the early style unit.

early unit bolted in:

IMG_2967.jpg


Bracket:

IMG_2970.jpg


IMG_2971.jpg


same shape as V/R

IMG_2972.jpg


mount installed:

IMG_2973.jpg


IMG_2975.jpg


V/R mounted:

IMG_2976.jpg


IMG_2978.jpg
 
That is some fancy machining. I put the "isolated field" VR next to my square-back alternator since that space was unused and I wanted to keep the firewall clean. The "ign sense" wire for the VR is a shared run with the field, but 12 awg wire so negligible drop. My "ign" junction is at a PDC relay/fuse box near the battery, so the wires run across the top of the timing cover. I ran a dedicated ground wire to the VR to be safe. In case anyone wonders, that is a Walbro EFI fuel pump and Covette filter/reg at the bottom.
 

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Everybody talks about the echlin and standard blue streak voltage regulators and how good they are, i purchased my voltage regulator from orielly auto parts and i asked for there premium qauility voltage regulator and they gave me a borg warner select. Are these voltage regulators any good? it was only 19.99 and it came with a life time warranty. I am however running a standard x-series ignition module along with a standard cap and rotor, my ignition coil is a borg warner select as well and my ballast resistor is a standard 4 prong, thinking about wiring a new ignition module wiring harness and wiring it to a two prong resistor seems how the 4 prong ballasts are made for the extra 5th pin on the older ignition modules if i remember correctly, and my standard ignition module is a 4 pin so i could wire it to a 2 pin ballast.
 
I also ran a pig tail ground wire from behind my voltage regulator to the fire wall and i sanded all the paint off behind the voltage regulator to make sure it has a good ground, should i ground the altenator from the altenator to behind the voltage regulator as well? its just a standard 60 amp altenator from napa and it says they are grounded thru the case but i dont know how well they ground thru the case?
 
I have to tell you I'm not impressed with BW. Not too long ago, my Uncle, who lived 50 miles away before his death, had a LOT of trouble with a "continuous duty" solenoid installationg involving a second battery for trailer brakes. He went through about 3 of the BW solenoids --which is what the local store he dealt with carried, before I finally told him to "buy one somewhere else."

Unfortunately, it sounds like some of the Standard / Blue Streak stuff is headed the same way.
 
I'm running a bw voltage regulator and ignition coil and plug wires. Never have had a problem with them but i am going to get rid of it all for better stuff eventually and keep all the borg warner stuff for spares. I had always heard bw was a good brand. but since everything is made in china or mexico now nothing is very good anymore.
 
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