Welding with a pacemaker

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  1. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • Mike69cuda

      Mike69cuda 66 is the new 17 FABO Gold Member

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      Del,
      I watched the videos, but came to a different conclusion. The magnetic field induced movement only happens when the conductors are very close together. The wires that are a foot or so apart don’t move. The magnetic field is defined by the current and the length of the wire. For a coil, add the number of turns. So the length of the cables, very close together provides the force to move them. They have to be very close together for this to work.

      Now let’s think about a similar experiment the same distance (a couple of inches) from the welder transformer. Likely orders of magnitude more magnetic flux that close to the transformer. Lots of force to move something there. Very little magnetic flux in a wire compared to a transformer at the same current.

      As you pointed out, a lot of the flux in a well designed transformer (Chinese?) is contained with in the transformer. However the wire experiment distance was a couple of inches. If we are going to compare, it needs to be apples to apples.

      I still think that the magnetic field density at the same distance is much greater with a transformer than a single wire.
       
    • Bewy

      Bewy Well-Known Member

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      Two comments from personal experience.
      - mount an E core ign coil under your dash & you will hear it 'vibrate' as the windings clamp/unclamp on the iron core.
      - 3M marketed a library theft detection system in the 1970s that picked up books about to be stolen. They had to alter the operating frequency because it interfered with pacemakers.
       
    • PROSTOCKTOM

      PROSTOCKTOM Well-Known Member

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      That is not correct and if you want to weld asking your doctor is a lot more sound advice than asking guys on here. My friend Keith just went through this with his doctor because he's having a pacemaker installed. They even contacted the manufacturer of the pacemaker he's going to have installed and they told him that he could weld so long as it was under 175 amps. So to say that you can't weld is an incorrect answer. You need to do your research with individuals qualified to answer those questions.

      Tom
       
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      • Bewy

        Bewy Well-Known Member

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        Hmm. Would a doctor know about the magnetic field for a brand X welder?
        Don't think I would be risking 174 amps either....
         
      • DrCharles

        DrCharles Well-Known Member

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        The problem will always be legal liability. No manufacturer is going to guarantee that you can't possibly be hurt doing [insert activity here]. Especially since people with pacemakers/defibrillators are already not in the best of health. All it takes is one guy to have his final MI who happened to be welding and everyone gets sued to hell and back. The manufacturer, the hospital, the "rich" doctor... any handy deep pocket. Causation does not equal correlation, but try explaining that to 12 people who see an award as the life insurance lottery...
        So it's safest to just say no :realcrazy: in a country with 700K doctors but 1.33M lawyers.

        Edited to add: I just saw Prostock Tom's comment. Frankly I'm surprised that they said "up to 175 amps". That sounds entirely too logical.
         
      • Oldmanmopar

        Oldmanmopar Going left turning right FABO Gold Member

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        If they would tell me I need a pace maker I would say No! The only pace maker a man needs is his wife. She always seem to get my heart racing in more ways then one
         
      • Sterling

        Sterling Well-Known Member

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        Is is possible that the newer inverter welders do not create as much magnetic field as a transformer welder ? I have a Miller Multimatic 215, that weighs 36 lbs. Compared to my Hobart Beta MiG or my Lincoln Tig welder, which are very heavy
         
      • Mike69cuda

        Mike69cuda 66 is the new 17 FABO Gold Member

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        https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V2XPNV9/?tag=fabo03-20
        upload_2021-12-21_15-36-11.jpeg

        How about a detector? $25 on Amazon.

        Trying to make sense out of the readings may be hard when comparing them to what a pacemaker can handle, but this should give you an idea of what the danger areas would be.

        I am not sure what part of the frequency range this covers. Electromagnetic field calculations are pretty much black magic to me. Will do some more research.
         
      • Mike69cuda

        Mike69cuda 66 is the new 17 FABO Gold Member

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        That is a really relevant and interesting question.

        In a transformer welder the primary frequency is 60 hz. There are harmonics (multiples of the frequency) that are lower in strength, but they fall of quickly as the frequency rises.

        In an inverter welder the 60 hz is still there, but now you have the inverter frequency (often around about 20,000 Hz).

        I would think the electric and magnetic fields would be much different. Not smart enough to determine the real differences.
         
      • Bewy

        Bewy Well-Known Member

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        I have an inverter style welder, but not sure exactly how it works. An inverter in electrical parlance converts AC current to DC current. So I presume my mains operated welder converts the current reqd for welding into DC. Both AC & DC produce magnetic fields.
         
      • RustyRatRod

        RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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        I farted.
         
      • Bewy

        Bewy Well-Known Member

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        Hope you shared it....
         
      • Bewy

        Bewy Well-Known Member

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        What I said in post 36 is incorrect. Realised it later.
        An inverter converts DC to AC.
        Sorry for any confusion.
         
      • Mike69cuda

        Mike69cuda 66 is the new 17 FABO Gold Member

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        All this has got my interest up. I bought a detector off Amazon. I will fool with it and post results.
         
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