My '70 Dart has brand new stock steering and suspension parts. I set the ride height and max'd the castor and camber (one cam in and one out) and am now doing an alignment. I had to dial back the camber from just over 1 degree to get back to 1/2 degree. Does this seem normal? I haven't checked the castor but will see how it drives after I set the toe in.
What did you guys get for max camber?
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remytherat
Well-Known Member
Yeah that's how it is. Max the castor and then compromise until camber gets into spec.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Yes, I too lost a degree of caster to get a half a degree of negative camber. Still ended with more than 3.5 caster so, I was happy.
If you don't have an accurate way to measure angle, just take a 90, AKA a square, and measure at the same points on both legs to create a 45. Then do the same thing to get 22.5
I got the trig calculator out
Kendog 170
Let the boy go !
I put the offset bushings in. They said they could only get stock specs. I don't know much about alignments. He said anymore caster and camber would be out. Car drives nice so I'm happy. Makes me wonder if the car got tweaked by PO in the early years.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
I used 4 offset bushings, i put both adjusters all the way inward then used the front one to set camber at -.5*, left the rear all the way inward to maximize caster.. didn't bother to measure it though since it is what it is and i can't get more anyway. Drives and steers great.
P.S. i didn't pay attention to max camber (topic of this thread) since i wasn't shooting for max camber anyway..
P.S. i didn't pay attention to max camber (topic of this thread) since i wasn't shooting for max camber anyway..
Going to post my dilemma here for shyts n grins. I just rebuilt my 69 cuda front end with quality parts, and used the PST upper control arms. Eyeballed it all up and limped it to the alignment shop just last week.
I scanned in the resulting computer data. I feel like it was a total waste of time given the end results. Apparently the tech did not know what he was doing. I requested 6 deg caster, 1/2 neg camber. This was as close as he could get sounds like bs.
I am starting over with a home alignment, and am currently waiting on my gauge to arrive. I will follow up with values obtained.
I scanned in the resulting computer data. I feel like it was a total waste of time given the end results. Apparently the tech did not know what he was doing. I requested 6 deg caster, 1/2 neg camber. This was as close as he could get sounds like bs.
I am starting over with a home alignment, and am currently waiting on my gauge to arrive. I will follow up with values obtained.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
yeah..i have never been happy with a shop alignment.. Hang on... does that actually show 1.1 camber on one side and 3.3 on the other? wtf.... how did he not get those to match?
also.. how did he measure 14.8* caster when you brought it in? unless i'm reading that wrong...
I don't believe he had his tire clamps on correctly, if you should even use them on an alignment is questionable to me. I have added a thick steel washer and additional spindle nut on each side to give the hub a nice square surface for the magnetic gauge to attach. I don't know much about the computer jiffy alignment racks, but I am not impressed. The PST uppers wouldn't cause that high of a reading. K frame lined up so has not been tweaked to cause it either. Also, the car was extremely toed out when I pulled it in the garage after the alignment. I am starting all over anyway. I will follow up. I have to go cut up a bent stainless dishwasher face to make slip plates now, cutting with a jig saw in the garage will surely wake the neighbors lol.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
I used the edge of the part that sticks out on the hub to put my gauge on so i could do it with the tires on.. Also did the string method birdsong shows to do toe-in.. really happy with it.
and 2 vinyl tiles with oil between them for slip plates
and 2 vinyl tiles with oil between them for slip plates
I am leaving my wheels on. The tool fits inside the wheel register but as I was concerned with the shallow depth spec of 3/4 of an inch, I elected to place a large washer over the spindle after first removing the key and capture nut. By the dimensions I found online of the snout of the Longacre unit it should fit great. I am waiting on Hamazon to bring it. I am already leveled to a half degree and on my home made slip plates. I will measure first and record every move. Will follow up later.
I bought some used wheel clamps which worked well along with the magnetic castor/camber gauge and a digital angle gauge. I've got camber done at 0.5 deg and toe in at 1/16" side. The string method seems pretty good to me although I was skeptical about its accuracy at first. I'm not confident the castor numbers are any good as I need something more accurate for measuring the wheel turn. Right now the passenger side is almost a degree higher than the driver's side....I assume I would have to reduce camber on the driver's side to remedy that or better yet buy offset bushings. We'll see how it drives.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
Just curious.... did you setup your string from the body pinch weld along the bottom of the car or?
No I ran a string parallel to the tires using 2 jack stands. I moved the front jack stand in/out until the string was parallel with the rear wheel (using a metal depth gauge). I then measured the distance between the string and the front of the front wheel lip and back of the front wheel lip to get 1/16 toe in (a little less as its only 14" diameter here). After doing both sides my wife and I double checked the total toe by measuring tread to tread width under the car to see if I had 1/8" toe in. The first time I got toe out as I got measurement dyslexia and moved the tire the wrong way on one side
Fortunately it doesn't take long to do this. Of course you have to center the steering wheel before you start. The tires are sitting on 2 pieces of heavy sheet metal with grease between them so they move easily.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
nice.. yeah i do mine by setting the string parallel using the seam that runs under the door/quarter that hangs down at the back of the rocker... works well.. i need to redo mine i have a slight pull right since i changed to a borgeson boxNo I ran a string parallel to the tires using 2 jack stands. I moved the front jack stand in/out until the string was parallel with the rear wheel (using a metal depth gauge). I then measured the distance between the string and the front of the front wheel lip and back of the front wheel lip to get 1/16 toe in (a little less as its only 14" diameter here). After doing both sides my wife and I double checked the total toe by measuring tread to tread width under the car to see if I had 1/8" toe in. The first time I got toe out as I got measurement dyslexia and moved the tire the wrong way on one side
Icetech
Well-Known Member
just toe... it was fine before i changed the box, it changed the pitman arm height a little bit and threw the toe off.. 10 min fix i have just been lazy. Might get to it tonight
Ok I took it for a test drive. It drifts to the right more than it should on a cambered road. I guess I'll have to deal with the caster difference ( about a degree more on the passenger side). I assume this will mean dialing in a little less camber on the passenger side?
Inertia
Well-Known Member
String has been used for prob a century.
Tested and proven ever year trackside.
Good job
Sidewalk chalk on the center tread of the tire, then gently spin wheel with a stabilized (supported tool-{screwdriver}) to scribe a single line on the tire tread, measure toe, from the center- lines.
Here's toe-bars for single person adjustments. ( Note. Lower cross-bar must be above the inflation bulge on bottom of tire, we use a bungee-cird around the tire to hold toe-bars in place. Slots cut lower bar for tape measure to fit in.
If it pulls to the left, - take a little caster outta the passenger side.
If it pulls to the right, take a little caster outta the drivers side .
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Following up on my other posts.
Max caster is a disappointment even though it has PST tubular uppers. Wanted 6°, Final numbers for today are, Right, 3.2 caster with 0.0 camber, Left, 3.5 caster with +1.0 camber. Hard time on the left to get that caster. Forward adjustment all the way out, rear adjustment all the way in. With camber at zero, caster is too low. It does drive nice, seems like no centering at any speed though. Almost no bump steer and doesn't wander in the ruts excessively. I may have to leave it at this unless I spring for new uppers. Caster measurements are at 20° using the Longacre bubble gauge. A very repeatable gauge, happy with the purchase.
My object of all this work is to have return to center of the wheel, would think the power steering would make this happen better.
Max caster is a disappointment even though it has PST tubular uppers. Wanted 6°, Final numbers for today are, Right, 3.2 caster with 0.0 camber, Left, 3.5 caster with +1.0 camber. Hard time on the left to get that caster. Forward adjustment all the way out, rear adjustment all the way in. With camber at zero, caster is too low. It does drive nice, seems like no centering at any speed though. Almost no bump steer and doesn't wander in the ruts excessively. I may have to leave it at this unless I spring for new uppers. Caster measurements are at 20° using the Longacre bubble gauge. A very repeatable gauge, happy with the purchase.
My object of all this work is to have return to center of the wheel, would think the power steering would make this happen better.
Inertia
Well-Known Member
Could we get some pix of how you have the inner tube control arms attached to the frame, tia ( pivot points)
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