What Is Wrong

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olddman

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Need some help again. I am attaching some photos of the left and right tire of my 1965 Dart GT. The photos show the difference in gap between the tire and bottom edge of wheel well. Left side has about 1/2 inch of clearance and the right side has 2 inches of clearance. Can anyone tell me what is wrong? How do I get clearance to be more equal on both sides?

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Are the wheels dead straight ahead and have you checked the toe in/toe out?
 
Alignment and strut rods and bushings come to mind. Could be a lot more or less, like lower control arm bushings or bent components. A pic on a lift from under would help.
 
I would look close at the strut rod bushings as well
 
Get your wheels dead ahead and measure your center to center from front to rear on both sides
 
What little you show us looks nice though!
 
Was the K-member out of the car ? loosen all 4 bolts and push the left side back and the right side forward.
 
When the K member is installed, it has to be squared. That is really production tolerances IMO.
 
My K with the correct bolts pretty much squared itself. Guess it could happen and certainly if non standard bolts are used.
 
Strut rod issues. Get pictures of the two and compare. Your LCA could be out of wack(too far forward) Grab hold of the strut rod and shake it real good, it should not move at all or see if you can push that wheel backward.
 
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It's a mopar....that's the problem...

Just kidding I have no clue what your actual problem is my apologies. Wheels, trim and paint look pretty though!
 
Get a light and check the lower bushings, the K frame sleeve, and the welds around it.
 
For starters do a cross check with a tape measure. Hook the tape measure on the lower ball joint and measure to the holes in the rear sub frame just in front of the rear axle. Should be within 1/4" otherwise may have to shift your sub frame as stated above to zero it out.

Have someone follow you the way it is right now and see if the car is slightly "Dog Tracking". This would be a sign that your K Member is not sitting in there square.

Also as you are driving let go of the steering wheel for a few seconds and see if the car pulls left or right on a level road. If it goes straight, then it leads back to K member being bolted in out of square.

It could be out of sqaure from a previous accident you dont know about too ?? K members can bend.
 
As usual I have been given a lot of good information. Will start checking and let everyone know what I have found out. Thanks!!
 
That's off quite a bit. You can diagnose the issue and maybe correct the cause but you should take it to a good alignment shop.
 
I've seen that a time or two. It happens when you install a V8 strutrod bushing on one side and 6er on the other side.
kidding!
I'll guess twisted LCA.
But only because you wouldda noticed a wrong-side UCA
 
Managed to get out to the garage today and take some measurements.
Left lower ball joint to second hole in rear subframe: 83 1/4 inches.
Right lower ball joint to second hole in rear subframe: 83 1/4 inches.
Measured the spread of the K frame, where it mounts:
Left side: 9 7/8 inches
Right side: 10 inches
Did not see any cracks on K frame or broken welds.
Some back ground:
About eight years ago I bought a new set of tires. Went to 205 70R 14 on the front and 225 70R 14 on the rear. When car was backed out of bay, the left front tire rubbed against the lower part of the wheel well when wheel turned to left. Had to bend the lip of wheel well a bit for clearance. Got home and started checking front end for looseness and bad bushings. Decided to go ahead and rebuild front end. Installed new bushings: strut rods, lower control arm, upper control arm, and sway bar. Upper and lower ball joints. Upper and lower control arm bumpers. Inner and outer tie rod ends. Then had an alignment done. Tires are not showing any uneven wear. As time passed I forgot about the problem as the car drove fine.
Then last fall I was at a car show and started talking to some other Mopar guys and mentioned the problem with front of my car. The suggestions they had did not shed any new reasons why or what to check for what I had heard before. This winter I needed to replace the wheel cylinders and after I put the wheels back on I got to thinking about why the clearance was different on both sides. That is when I decided to post my problem on the forum. I do intend to have the alignment again this spring at another shop.
One other question what is the torque on the strut rod nut. If I remember I torqued them to 45 ft. lbs.
 
olddman said:
Managed to get out to the garage today and take some measurements.
Left lower ball joint to second hole in rear subframe: 83 1/4 inches.
Right lower ball joint to second hole in rear subframe: 83 1/4 inches.
Measured the spread of the K frame, where it mounts:
Left side: 9 7/8 inches
Right side: 10 inches
Did not see any cracks on K frame or broken welds.
Some back ground:
About eight years ago I bought a new set of tires. Went to 205 70R 14 on the front and 225 70R 14 on the rear. When car was backed out of bay, the left front tire rubbed against the lower part of the wheel well when wheel turned to left. Had to bend the lip of wheel well a bit for clearance. Got home and started checking front end for looseness and bad bushings. Decided to go ahead and rebuild front end. Installed new bushings: strut rods, lower control arm, upper control arm, and sway bar. Upper and lower ball joints. Upper and lower control arm bumpers. Inner and outer tie rod ends. Then had an alignment done. Tires are not showing any uneven wear. As time passed I forgot about the problem as the car drove fine.
Then last fall I was at a car show and started talking to some other Mopar guys and mentioned the problem with front of my car. The suggestions they had did not shed any new reasons why or what to check for what I had heard before. This winter I needed to replace the wheel cylinders and after I put the wheels back on I got to thinking about why the clearance was different on both sides. That is when I decided to post my problem on the forum. I do intend to have the alignment again this spring at another shop.
One other question what is the torque on the strut rod nut. If I remember I torqued them to 45 ft. lbs.
Click to expand...


Sounds like you a vetted it out previously.

Have you checked any of the other frame measurements for square? Is this a Fender issue? Would really like to see good pic’s from underneath on a lift from several angles.
 
Measurements sounds good and everything you mentioned.

Thinking you may have backed up at first with the wheels turned and caught the lower fender bending it in a bit.

One known trick for the A body guys that put bigger tires on the front is to lengthen that lower fender support rod just in front of the tire by 1", that will give you more clearance between the tire and fender.

Front lower support rods pictured here. Might have to tweek out the bottom of that close driver's side fender at the same time.

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olddman said:
Managed to get out to the garage today and take some measurements.
Left lower ball joint to second hole in rear subframe: 83 1/4 inches.
Right lower ball joint to second hole in rear subframe: 83 1/4 inches.
Measured the spread of the K frame, where it mounts:
Left side: 9 7/8 inches
Right side: 10 inches
Did not see any cracks on K frame or broken welds.
Some back ground:
About eight years ago I bought a new set of tires. Went to 205 70R 14 on the front and 225 70R 14 on the rear. When car was backed out of bay, the left front tire rubbed against the lower part of the wheel well when wheel turned to left. Had to bend the lip of wheel well a bit for clearance. Got home and started checking front end for looseness and bad bushings. Decided to go ahead and rebuild front end. Installed new bushings: strut rods, lower control arm, upper control arm, and sway bar. Upper and lower ball joints. Upper and lower control arm bumpers. Inner and outer tie rod ends. Then had an alignment done. Tires are not showing any uneven wear. As time passed I forgot about the problem as the car drove fine.
Then last fall I was at a car show and started talking to some other Mopar guys and mentioned the problem with front of my car. The suggestions they had did not shed any new reasons why or what to check for what I had heard before. This winter I needed to replace the wheel cylinders and after I put the wheels back on I got to thinking about why the clearance was different on both sides. That is when I decided to post my problem on the forum. I do intend to have the alignment again this spring at another shop.
One other question what is the torque on the strut rod nut. If I remember I torqued them to 45 ft. lbs.
Click to expand...
That strut rod nut has to be torqued a lot more then 45 lbs
More like a impact, and lube it, until it stops, and about 145 lb
Point the wheels straight ahead and post pics of both sides at the back of wheel, and see what the difference is? If one is more than the other, it has a setback issue, and something is bent or installed wrong.
 
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The only other thing I can think of if everything is straight and true and assembled properly could be the upper front end alignment Eccentrics adjustments, especially on the driver's side.

A bodies are known to be hard to get enough camber pushed out at the top of the wheel. They make after market replacement Eccentrics Bolts and Washers that have more throw on the eccentric, to push thing out farther and not be at the end of their adjustments.

The point here is they may have rolled the upper rear eccentric all the way out, and the front eccentric all the way in to get somewhat close to the factory caster camber settings.

In doing so this tips the top of the spindle to the front, moving the wheel forward.

Think I would try those aftermarket eccentric replacements, then talk to your front alignment guy and say I want to bring this left wheel back just a tad.

They know how to fudge the Caster, Camber, and Toe in setting to achieve the desired results, and also to cordinate the settings so the car handles well and does not wear out the tires.

I would say for the basic cost of the alignment that this is a good bet.

Just don't want to drop the car off and say do an alignment, need to talk with the actual mechanic that is doing the work and say these are the desired goals that I want to achieve.

This will be money well spent, and tell the guy if it takes him extra time you will compensate him for it.

50 year old cars need a little extra care for the alignments, vs rolling in a mini van at the local tires plus for an alignment.

Want to find a shop that knows these old cars.
 
George Jets said:
Just don't want to drop the car off and say do an alignment, need to talk with the actual mechanic that is doing the work and say these are the desired goals that I want to achieve.

This will be money well spent, and tell the guy if it takes him extra time you will compensate him for it.

50 year old cars need a little extra care for the alignments, vs rolling in a mini van at the local tires plus for an alignment.

Want to find a shop that knows these old cars.
Click to expand...

This is the one reason I do home alignments! Not saying it is the issue as we need more info. But care must be taken with these cars!
 
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