will J heads work on a 318? And many many more questions.

[bayyum]

I think that's what hot rodding is all about. Using what you have

 

[dodgetkboy78]

NO, I think that cam is too big for 302 heads in stock form. If you go with the swirl-port 302s, make sure you step down to a cam with lift more around .450" on the intakes; that's about the most stock 302 heads will take. If you port them well and gasket-match them to the Weiand intake then I'd say you could try that Crower cam. Also, with the Crower cam I think 9.0:1 compression would be the bare minimum; 9.5:1 would be better, and 10:1 would be the best.

That cam would also work well with J heads (and the Weiand intake, or possibly the Edelbrock RPM which is the next step up in size I think) but in this case compression is even more vital... at this point I'd strongly recommend some shorter gears and/or a higher stall converter because bottom end might begin to suffer with the larger "non-swirl" ports.

Other than the valve guides hitting the retainer, how is it too big? Considering a flat tappet cam doesn't spend much time with the valve open at max, and a 302 head 318 will pull decent to 6K......

Just the owner of more than one 302 headed motor here curious about your theory.

 

[MopaR&D]

Other than the valve guides hitting the retainer, how is it too big? Considering a flat tappet cam doesn't spend much time with the valve open at max, and a 302 head 318 will pull decent to 6K......

Just the owner of more than one 302 headed motor here curious about your theory.

My untouched 302-headed 1970 318 with 256/262 (adv.) Lunati Voodoo cam (.454/.475" lift) pulls to 5500 cleanly but I shift a little before that because I can feel the powerband start to go down at that point (and I start to hit valve float). Maybe if I had a bigger intake, maybe if I had headers, maybe if I shimmed up the intake springs to spec'd installed height, it would keep pulling but this engine is old and starting to show signs of wear so I'm not too worried about it. I'm just saying that with a larger cam the engine might gain a little up top but it will lose grunt on the bottom end which wouldn't be helping with 3.23 gears and a mild converter. He can go ahead and use it but he won't be getting that cam's full potential without at least porting his 302s and will be needlessly giving up torque on the bottom end.

If it's your only choice go ahead and use the Crower cam for the time being but the engine will be over-cammed unless you bump up the compression and get the heads flowing well.

 

[J-MacsMopars]

I do have allot of parts to choose from. Four intakes (three are edelbrock performers though), J heads or 302 heads or the stock ones, 360 or 318, 904 or 727, Carter AVS or TQ or brand new in the box Edelbrock 1406. Edelbrock performer cam or Crower Beast, All of that stuff and I still don't think I can build an engine. I was hoping to sell a few of the things so that I could get my car together, but no one wants to buy. So I'll hold onto them. I figured that the J heads would have been worth $250 to someone. They are worth that much for me to keep. Shipping on them was going to be over $100 though. I just have to wait. Slow and steady wins the race, right!

 

[340dart.812]

This shouldnt be that hard. Just use what you have. yes there is way better combos out there. but like you said you just want a driver with some romp and good sound. Use the later 318 heads, just port match them cuz that cam is a little bit on the large side for what your doing. Use the crowler cam and DEGREE IT IN. and you will be pleased with your combo or at least with you $ vs hp ratio by using parts you already have. If you what if every part you will end up with a w2 headed 360 stroker with a roller cam and $5000 later ya you will go fast but not everone needs a nascar motor!! How many 318s out there get drove 10xs more than the big HP motors. I drive my slant 6 valiant way more than my street strip dart. I wish I had an in between car like a stock smallblock with a good sounding cam for cruising and leave it alone keep it simple hey good luck with your build:-D

 

[rumblefish360]

ya ya those are the ones you want. those are the same chamber as the magnums if i remember right or darn close use those and clean the bowls up and port match them to intake and try a smaller cam your stock pistons are in the hole like .120 the performer might be a good cam but I would look into the smallest comp thumper they make a reg hyd flat tappet cam for us mopar guys now it closes the exhaust valve earlier and helps build compression and gives you the sound of a larger cam they just dont like to rev real high like past 5800 but you shouldnt need to rev yours up that high anyway also what intake are you running

Edel. cams are not very good, however, a Thumper is a roller, not a Hyd. cam. If you can show me different, I'd thak you alot. I have not seen a Hyd. Thumper cam. :read2:

I do have allot of parts to choose from. Four intakes (three are edelbrock performers though), J heads or 302 heads or the stock ones, 360 or 318, 904 or 727, Carter AVS or TQ or brand new in the box Edelbrock 1406. Edelbrock performer cam or Crower Beast, All of that stuff and I still don't think I can build an engine. I was hoping to sell a few of the things so that I could get my car together, but no one wants to buy. So I'll hold onto them. I figured that the J heads would have been worth $250 to someone. They are worth that much for me to keep. Shipping on them was going to be over $100 though. I just have to wait. Slow and steady wins the race, right!

RIGHT! Take your time. IMO, I'd use/do the following with the parts listed above;

Weiand Stealth, sell the Performers and roll cash back into the project.
302 heads, shelve the J's for later,, use other heads for porting practice.
Use the 904, save the 727 or sell and roll cash back over into project.
I'd use the brand new Edelbrock though, I like the AVS better and a T-Q above the rest of the Carter line up. Shelve the other carbs for later.
(IF the AVS is in good working order, try it after you get the performer dailed in well. This way, you'll understand how they are similar and idfferent and how they work.)

I'd go with the Crower for sure! Use the edelbrock cam, cut up for fishing weights.

IF your pistons are stock or stock replacements in the engine allready or just an old engine being used as is, mill the heads down some. Look for a 9.0-1 ratio or better without excessive milling.

And what I said earlier, 360 valves in the 318 head.

A looser converter would be a plus, not a mandortory thing, but it would be nice and gears would also be nice. Again, not mandotory.

I'm running 3.21 gears and a 225/70/14 tire. My cam is a Crane 216/228-.454/.480 on a 112 on a stock low comp. (79) 318 & 904 tranny in the Duster. 625 Carter on a LD4B intake and headers w/2-1/2 exhaust.

Tune well, it'll run high 14's.

 

[J-MacsMopars]

Thanks Rumblefish.

I have no real idea how to port the heads. Are you talking about the ports where the intake matches up as well as the exhaust? Also, what do I have to do to get the 1:88's to fit. Are the direct replacement? The engine is a direct take out that only has 70K orig miles on it. It is a 69 though. I wish I had the money to put different pistons in, but at this time, I don't. About how much does it cost to shave the head a little?

As for gears, I am going to be running 3:23's. I had 3:91's, but they are not highway gears. I plan to drive the car and drive it allot. I will build another car as a race car, this one is for the street. If I get the Demon I am trying to work a trade on, that one can be a street/race car. That being said, I still want the Duster to perform and I want it to sound good. I am assuming that with the crower cam and how everyone is saying that it's big, it will have a loap? Also, I am running 340 exhaust manifolds, not headers. The manifolds have been ported out a little by the guy I got them from. One other thing I noticed about my intake is that one of the ports is allot smaller than the others, I will post a pic to show in a minute. Is there a reason for that?

 

[340dart.812]

Here is the new hyd thumper cam from comps website


Product Details
COMP Cams #CL20-600-4 Thumpr™

CHYSLER MOPAR 273-360 HYDRAULIC FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT & LIFTERS

Chrysler 273-360 C.I. 8 CYL. 1964-2000



INCLUDES:

20-600-4 Thumper Camshaft

822-16 HighEnergy Hydraulic Lifters



Hydraulic-(Thumpr™) High performance street, stock converter ok, best with 2000+ converter and gears, choppy/thumping idle.



Now available for hydraulic flat tappet applications, COMP Cams® new Thumpr™ Camshafts are the hottest cam series to hit the streets in more than a decade. Street rodders and muscle car enthusiasts just can’t get enough of the incredible exhaust sound and equally impressive performance delivered by these innovative camshafts. Applying a new camshaft design concept originally created for sports car endurance racing, the COMP Cams® engineering team incorporated early exhaust valve opening, long exhaust duration and a generous amount of intake and exhaust overlap to maximize your engine’s nasty-idling characteristics without negatively impacting power output or streetability.





• Available for carbureted Small & Big Block Chevy, Ford 351 Windsor and Chrysler Small Block engines

• Long exhaust duration & other design characteristics produce a “serious power” sound

• Excellent hp gains & broad torque curve deliver real seat of the pants performance




PART

NUMBER


Valve Setting
RPM

Range
Cam Grind

Number
Duration
Valve Lift @ 1.5:1
Lobe Sep.

Angle

Int.
Ext.
Adv.
@.050"
In.
Ex.

In.
Ex.
In.
Ex.

20-600-4
Hyd.
Hyd.
2000-5800
297TH7
279
296
227
241
.486 .473 107°



Rumblefish I have the older version of that crane cam it is .464 .497 lift powermax cam that is a great cam for mild 360 build with the 112 lobe sep
I went 13.1 @102mph with some 1.88 valve heads and the performer intake and 3.91 gears with that cam and it had loads of torque it felt as good as my 408 down low sometimes going bigger is not always better

BUILD STREET DRIVEN CARS FOR TORQUE!!!

 

[J-MacsMopars]

Here are a few pics of my intake. One other thing that is going to have to be taken care of with it is, I am going to have to grind a piece off just so that the valve covers fit. Right above the ports on the back pass side there is a little square block thing. It won't let the covers sit flat.

Can I port this out so that it is the same size?

Thanks 340Dart.
All you guys have been a huge help and I have been learning allot. This site is the best. I think everyone needs to give them selfs a pat on the back. FABO is awesome!!!

 

[340dart.812]

just port match the intake to the gasket.
Put the gasket up to the intake line up the bolt holes and mark where the gasket lays spray paint over the gasket
Then do the same for the heads and grind off the area that is painted
maybe someone else could explain better
if you are going with 3.23 gears use the performer intake mare bottem end
the smaller port on the intake is for the coolant if its in the front
Also on the heads you will have to get the guides machined out for the larger valves
basically just go to a machine shop and get some prices for this
really for a budget build the smaller valves will cut down on power but will still work
the best way to plan a build is to set the price tag amount first then the suggestions to as what to do and the power level are limited by that
l
l

 

[J-MacsMopars]

Also, is it bad to block off the EGR port? will it make any difference? I know some gasket sets come with a little plate to put over it.

 

[J-MacsMopars]

The port I am talking about isn't a water jacket. But if I can put the gasket up to it and mark it so that it is the same size, I should be fine. As for the intakes. I really like the look of the stealth and would prefer using it over the edelbrocks. I am using an 8 3/4, so it's not like it's that big of a pain to change rears. As for the car. I don't plan on running the 1/4, I do plan on driving through the many canyons we have around here though.

 

[340dart.812]

blocking off the ehaust crossover = cooler charge=more hp
but will take longer to warm up and use more fuel

 

[dodgetkboy78]

Don't know how cold it gets where you live, but here, blocking a heat crossover, having an airgap manifold, or any B/RB is a real PITA! LOL

 

[Petzschler]

if your gonna use a 1.88~2.02" valve on a 3.91" bore. you should really chamfer the top of the
cylinder bore on the intake side. JMO.

 

[dodgetkboy78]

2.02 yes, 1.88? Not enough of a difference to notice from the stock valve. If anything, the chamber of the 302 will shroud, not the cylinder bore.

 

[rumblefish360]

Here is the new hyd thumper cam from comps website


Product Details
COMP Cams #CL20-600-4 Thumpr™

CHYSLER MOPAR 273-360 HYDRAULIC FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT & LIFTERS

Chrysler 273-360 C.I. 8 CYL. 1964-2000


Hydraulic-(Thumpr™) High performance street, stock converter ok, best with 2000+ converter and gears, choppy/thumping idle.



Now available for hydraulic flat tappet applications, COMP Cams® new Thumpr™ Camshafts are the hottest cam series to hit the streets in more than a decade. Street rodders and muscle car enthusiasts just can’t get enough of the incredible exhaust sound and equally impressive performance delivered by these innovative camshafts. Applying a new camshaft design concept originally created for sports car endurance racing, the COMP Cams® engineering team incorporated early exhaust valve opening, long exhaust duration and a generous amount of intake and exhaust overlap to maximize your engine’s nasty-idling characteristics without negatively impacting power output or streetability.





•
20-600-4
Hyd.
Hyd.2000-5800
297TH7
279/296
227/241
.486 .473 107°

Rumblefish I have the older version of that crane cam it is .464 .497 lift powermax cam that is a great cam for mild 360 build with the 112 lobe sep
I went 13.1 @102mph with some 1.88 valve heads and the performer intake and 3.91 gears with that cam and it had loads of torque it felt as good as my 408 down low sometimes going bigger is not always better

BUILD STREET DRIVEN CARS FOR TORQUE!!!

NICE! I was just at the Comp Cams on line catolog just a day or so ago and I didn't see these listed. Most glad to see this and be seated and corrected!
(Wheres the link, LOL, JK!)

just port match the intake to the gasket.
Put the gasket up to the intake line up the bolt holes and mark where the gasket lays spray paint over the gasket
Then do the same for the heads and grind off the area that is painted
maybe someone else could explain better
if you are going with 3.23 gears use the performer intake mare bottem end

I wouldn't do that but I would make sure the ports are square and matched. The gasket may or may not be a good size for this.

I see it being pointless to gasket match the intake to the gasket since the gasket MAY be a 340 size. Then you have a small skinny port getting big and back down to a smaller size.

The 318 can use it's current port size well and the Stealth's runners are about that size.

 

[dodgetkboy78]

I found a set of Fel-Pro HP gaskets, in small port size, wish I had wrote it down, but they do make them.

 

[Petzschler]

2.02 yes, 1.88? Not enough of a difference to notice from the stock valve. If anything, the chamber of the 302 will shroud, not the cylinder bore.

the whole point of a 302 chamber is to promote swirl.. so chamber mods like that are not recomended IMO.
once you start milling heads + high lift cams + big valves the valve gets pretty close to the bore wall.
even the 1.88 valve will be to close for comfort with a moderate lift camshaft. but all this is JMO.

 

[66fs]

Fel-Pro HP small port intake gaskets are 1243. Composition gaskets with print-o-seal ports and water pass thru. No exhaust cross over if you want heat to the manifold though.

 

[dodgetkboy78]

the whole point of a 302 chamber is to promote swirl.. so chamber mods like that are not recomended IMO.
once you start milling heads + high lift cams + big valves the valve gets pretty close to the bore wall.
even the 1.88 valve will be to close for comfort with a moderate lift camshaft. but all this is JMO.

Swirl yes, flow no.......

A 1.88 is real close the the chamber wall. Anything in a 3.91 bore is too close for comfort, but the difference between a chamfer, and a non chamfer, with the restricted chamber of the 302's, it's not something you will feel.

I built a X head 318 (3.94 bore) and chamfered the cylinders, but I didn't have a choice, for his build, it would be about as effective as lowering the oil weight, time or money better spent on a windage tray, ect.

(IMO)

 

[1wild&crazyguy]

I recommend if anyone wants to do the 360 1.88/1.60 heads on their street 318, that they use a dual plane 'or more gear', have as high compression they can run on pump like 10.8ish 'quench dome would be nice, and keep the cam's O lap right on the edge of letting ping as to get max torque/hp for the combo/comp [around 62-66*], and of corse ...the most initial timing it'll take with what ever it likes for total 32*-34* er what ever.

And if porting, beyond 245ish is gonna make it worse cc wise, it starts getting big in there.

jmo

 

[Badart]

Hey Jeremy I have a factory 4 bbl 318 intake with the heat crossover if you are concerned about that. If you are planning on driving it in the winter it might be a good idea. Your welcome to it if you want. Just a thought.

 

[dodgetkboy78]

I recommend if anyone wants to do the 360 1.88/1.60 heads on their street 318, that they use a dual plane 'or more gear', have as high compression they can run on pump like 10.8ish 'quench dome would be nice, and keep the cam's O lap right on the edge of letting ping as to get max torque/hp for the combo/comp [around 62-66*], and of corse ...the most initial timing it'll take with what ever it likes for total 32*-34* er what ever.

And if porting, beyond 245ish is gonna make it worse cc wise, it starts getting big in there.

jmo

Yes, but from what I can tell, he is going to use the 318 heads, with the 1.88/1.60 valves.....

i think........ :read2: But you neve rknow.

 

[1wild&crazyguy]

Jeremy, skip the heat cross over, I don't run run one, even when I lived in fresno where it was in the 20's sometimes.

And think about the guys with slants and headers, just like I had, no problems firing it up and driving off.

It's not necessary.