wilwood coversions..what next??

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the65dartguy1

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Hello all, I'm a first time poster but have visited this site several times for all of the great info.. I am about to convert my 65 Dart 270 (Slant 6 and 904) to Wilwood discs in the front and have already purchased the kit. I have a few questions though, and know several of you have done this specific operation already. I would like to know what master cyls you have used, and if there is a good bolt-up power booster kit that can be had for this car. I would like to go power, but I don't have to. My current master cyl is weepy and needs to be replaced anyways so I figure now is the perfect time. Also any reccomendations on prop valves (if they need to be changed, I am retaining the rear drums for now) would also be appreciated. I also read that the flex lines need to be replaced so any part #s or good places to buy this stuff from would be great. If there is anything that I should watch out for along the process please dont hesitate to tell me your horror stories or the like, there is no such thing as too much info when it comes to these cars!! Thanks in advance for your time and expertice.
 
Hello all, I'm a first time poster but have visited this site several times for all of the great info.. I am about to convert my 65 Dart 270 (Slant 6 and 904) to Wilwood discs in the front and have already purchased the kit. I have a few questions though, and know several of you have done this specific operation already. I would like to know what master cyls you have used, and if there is a good bolt-up power booster kit that can be had for this car. I would like to go power, but I don't have to. My current master cyl is weepy and needs to be replaced anyways so I figure now is the perfect time. Also any reccomendations on prop valves (if they need to be changed, I am retaining the rear drums for now) would also be appreciated. I also read that the flex lines need to be replaced so any part #s or good places to buy this stuff from would be great. If there is anything that I should watch out for along the process please dont hesitate to tell me your horror stories or the like, there is no such thing as too much info when it comes to these cars!! Thanks in advance for your time and expertice.



call bill at RMS. tell him what you have and what your doing. he will probably be able to tell you exactly what you need off the top of his head.

Reilly MotorSports, Inc.
Phone - 570-443-7440



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what a load of crap.

Firstly, I didn't post that link to single out that one liner ... I didn't even remember what was in it, just that it is a rather complete run down of an inexpensive brake upgrade.

Secondly, Rick E. is a respected member of the mopar community; so if you think he wrote something that is "fictitious in the extreme" perhaps you'd care to explain ... not to exonerate yourself, but to add valuable information.
 
Firstly, I didn't post that link to single out that one liner ... I didn't even remember what was in it, just that it is a rather complete run down of an inexpensive brake upgrade.


the guy already has the wilwood brakes so a "cheap" alternative really doesn't matter.


Secondly, Rick E. is a respected member of the mopar community; so if you think he wrote something that is "fictitious in the extreme" perhaps you'd care to explain ... not to exonerate yourself, but to add valuable information.


whats to explain? wilwoods are fine on the street. there are thousands of cars running the streets with them. mine included. :)
 
What's to explain? Well ... Rich says they're not fine. ... You say they are fine ... so do we just have a pissing contest or do we iron out the reasons why they are or are not fine. I take no sides.

If, on the off chance it comes out that they are not fine - which is entirely possible logistically - then perhaps he can return them and go another way. If on the other hand it is more or less understood that Rich is wrong and they are fine, then the OP can feel better about it.

I think that's entirely logical. If you'd rather not bother, that's just fine with me.

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Taking another look at the link - If you click on the 'Race Calipers' sub-link near the top, you will see installations instructions for Wilwood calipers - this OP you should read IMO. Note this one statement, which I presume represents the bulk of Rick's opinion:

"But why not a complete Wilwood disc brake kit? Mainly, the hubs are aluminum, definitely not the street deal, and even their H.D. rotors are only 10.75 x 0.81" - not even nearly as beefy as stock small-rotor, single-piston Mopar brakes."
 
I have had these brakes sitting in a box on the shelf for about two years now, so returning them isn't really an option. I suppose i could sell them off on ebay if necessary, but i would probably take a bath. I dont use the car as a daily driver anymore so I'm not real concerned with fatigue and stress on these parts, but I am still open to any/all suggestions.
 
Yes, Suggestion ... read the link - it should tell you all you need both for the Wilwood and for regualr Mopar parts.
 
I have freinds running 9 second all steel Darts with willwoods and heavier cars as daily drivers without issue's.

Rick has been know to make mistakes and more likey has taken that info about the brakes directly from ethier or both MP and/or Willwood themselfs. No disrespect to the man intended.

The brakes were NOT design to be on the street as everyday brakes and did not get a D.O.T. approval or one was not applied for. Willwood also set a weight/track limit on there useage.
 
Thanks for the link!! I have read a bunch of it and there's a wealth of info there! I will keep on reading and come up with a best case scenario for my car. Thanks again for the info and if anyone else wants to add anthing please feel free!!
 
I have freinds running 9 second all steel Darts with willwoods and heavier cars as daily drivers without issue's.

Rick has been know to make mistakes and more likey has taken that info about the brakes directly from ethier or both MP and/or Willwood themselfs. No disrespect to the man intended.

The brakes were NOT design to be on the street as everyday brakes and did not get a D.O.T. approval or one was not applied for. Willwood also set a weight/track limit on there useage.

Thanks for adding additional information. But a couple things need clarification:

1. Are you talking only about the calipers or the entire kit with alum rotors?
2. There's street use and there street use - are you talking boulevard cruising or 200 trips to Vermont for the Bennington fall show?
3. A nine second car that is driven back and forth to work and then hits the strip or just down to the burger joint?
 
Thanks for adding additional information. But a couple things need clarification:

1. Are you talking only about the calipers or the entire kit with alum rotors?
2. There's street use and there street use - are you talking boulevard cruising or 200 trips to Vermont for the Bennington fall show?
3. A nine second car that is driven back and forth to work and then hits the strip or just down to the burger joint?


can't speak for rumble but my wilwoods go on long trips. 2+ hour high speed trips. along with city type of driving.
 
Everyone makes mistakes. People out there running rat-rods (don't get me wrong now - some look done real nice) that don't look much safer than the wooden milk crate cars I made when I was 10.

Here's my point of view ... I don't know the original poster of this thread; don't know his tolerance for risk. Whether I'd be willing to run a certain combo or not based on safety constraints in my mind is irrelevant. If a poster asks for a good combo, I'd like to see him or her advised about all the pros and cons so that they can make up their own mind about the amount of "perceived?" risk they want to take.

If you say that you're running the Wilwood kit on the street - you and a bunch of other fellas - and you are all good with it, I certainly won't argue with you - you are yards ahead of me. I just think the OP ought to know the other side of the coin - the other opinions about it. That's all.
 
do some home work man. look around. don't take my word for it. look on other forums ..etc..etc..etc.. there are thousands of cars out there running wilwoods. you think they are unsafe. why? because one questionable in recent years magazine guy thinks they are?


and when was that written? (THIS ENTIRE WORK COPYRIGHT 1990-2002) a ton things have changed since then. technology is light years ahead now, your taking a write up from atleast 8 years ago as gospel.
 
do some home work man. look around. don't take my word for it. look on other forums ..etc..etc..etc.. there are thousands of cars out there running wilwoods. you think they are unsafe. why? because one questionable in recent years magazine guy thinks they are?


and when was that written? (THIS ENTIRE WORK COPYRIGHT 1990-2002) a ton things have changed since then. technology is light years ahead now, your taking a write up from atleast 8 years ago as gospel.

I have tried repeatedly and failed miserably to make myself clear. For that I apologize. I will try only once more. Here I go. I have said ...

1. that you are likely yards ahead of me on this in terms of info;
2. that I have no opinion on it - that I take neither side;
3. that I merely wanted clarification (NOT FOR MY SAKE) for the OPs as to why (that's: WHY?) they are or are not safe.
4. I am NOT arguing with you. I merely thought that information that would clarify the issue would be helpful.

Going back and forth with "I use them and I like them" vs "they are no good" is - in my mind - bloody useless. Regards,
 
I just went to the Wilwood site and for a car like mine with '75 spindles/disks, they have two kits:

1. " ... used on four-wheel disc cars weighing up to 2,800 pounds"
2. " ... for traditional non-ABS spindle applications on American muscle cars, vintage rods, and heavy weight drag cars ... are easily optioned to suit the braking requirements and style preferences for a daily driver, serious competition, ... "

So apparently:

1. You made a very good point when you stated that the article was dated;
2. It matters what type of Wilwood kit you install for what type of useage.

Both of the above mentioned kits have 10.75" rotors - so apart from weight savings I don't see any advantage over OEM '73 up parts.

Back in Rick's article though, I see a very attractive alternative using Wilwood calipers or off the shelf Viper calipers with larger rotors yet. This looks like the next step up for me if I decide to upgrade.

Rich is sure to be wrong at times, but he is usually not so much.
 
Lets not all get carried away here. Lots of good info and good opinions abound in this thread. Here is my take:

Yes, the article is old. There have been more innovations and new high performance products in the area of suspension and brakes for Mopars in the last few years than in all others combined, so a blanket statement singling out a Mfr who has a drastically different product line today simply cant be taken as truth anymore.

When this article was written, I was working for Brembo USA and was neck deep into a very hi-tech Ebody build. Beefed up suspension, 17s, MPFI etc (the term pro-touring hadnt even been coined yet) and ended up with GT Kits on all 4 corners, probably the first person in the world to have them on a muscle car. I can tell you from my experiences at Brembo that I would never have even considered Wilwood in those days. They just did not have the vast array of product they have today.

AndyF of AR has said that Dynalites are NOT for the street due to a lack of seals. He is the one who makes the kits to put Dynalites and Vipers on the 11.75 rotors.

So as was already pointed out, its all about usage. So choose accordingly. Know what your car needs and dont skimp, but also dont go overboard.
 
The various Wilwood kits fill a niche but they really aren't "streetable" kits. Some people run them on the street just fine but that doesn't really prove much. Most of the Wilwood stuff is very lightweight and is designed primarily for drag racing and/or street rod stuff. They do have some larger kits these days that might be suitable for street use but you'll need to upgrade to 17 inch rims.

There isn't really any reason for people to get wound up about this stuff, there are a bunch of different vendors and the parts are all designed for different applications. The Wilwood stuff fits the lower end, lightweight cars, drag race type of applications. PBR has the mid-range and Brembo owns the top end. The OEMs tend to use cheap cast iron caliper and rotors whenever possible but on performance cars they'll step up to either PBR or Brembo. I don't think a single OEM has ever used Wilwood calipers or rotors for anything.

If someone wants to debate the subject then Rokketride is as good as anyone on the subject. He could provide a number of reasons why Wilwood calipers aren't of the same quality level as Brembo calipers. But I'm not sure why there is even a debate on the subject. Why would anyone think that a $600 disc brake kit would be as good as a $2000 brake kit? You tend to get what you pay for and the cheapest kits on the market are priced that way for a reason.
 
Rokket - do you still have any high res pictures of your Brembo F50 conversion? I'm working on a new book and could use a couple pictures. The only ones I have are 1280x960 which might be okay but just thought I'd check. That might have been the highest resolution available back when those pictures were shot. I think that was back around 2000 or 2001?
 
I have freinds running 9 second all steel Darts with willwoods and heavier cars as daily drivers without issue's.

e.

3330 lbs ,9.38's at over 148 stops on a dime.
street driven many miles ,in heat and in cold stops on a dime !!
I have the street wilwood front kit,wilwood masterand prop valve, ran all new lines front and back and stock rear drums ................
I would do it again in a heart beat !!!
 
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