YET another will it fit..... steelies on a 68 Val

ValiantOne · Jun 7, 2017

Hey All,

Please help with steelies!

Car is a 68 Val. 8.75 rear, super stock springs out back, kyb shocks, standard spring locations. "Stock" suspension up front too, but rebuilt, boxed lowers, 1" torsion bars, kyb shocks, lowered a little bit, disc brake upgrade, and the later model sway bar.

I was going through my 6 cop rims today (15X7, 4.5 backspace) to find the best 4 for my 68 Val. I had 225/60/15's on two of them, so I tried them on all 4 corners and they seemed to clear. No problem out back, but up front they came pretty close to the rear of the fenders, but should work fine.

Out of 6 rims I only had 3 I'd really want to run. The rest had a bit more run out that I am comfortable with especially since I was going to blast and powder coat in body color. So I got to thinking about getting OE type steelies from Wheel Vintiques.

If I am going to go with new rims I thought why not go with 15X8's as they would be a little better width for the 225/60/15 anyhow.

Wheel Vintiques carries two backspace options in the 15X8 LBP (5X4.5) wheels. They have 4" and 4.5" BS.

My mind is telling me that the 4.5 bs option would be better as it was the outside edge of the tire that got close to the fender up front. But then I didn't pay too much attention to the clearance on the inside edge of the tire up front either.

Has anyone run this combo? Did it work?

Thanks!

CE

ValiantOne · Jun 7, 2017

Oh, and the "4.5" in backspace on the oe cop rims I have is kind of all over the place anyhow. They run from 4.25 to almost 4.5. So if the Wheel Vintiques have better tolerances I think this would help too. Maybe?

mopowers · Jun 7, 2017

I can't really help with what BS would be best for your car. You'll probably have to measure to be sure, since all these old mopars are slightly different. In case you weren't aware, Wheel Vintiques will make a custom offset steelie for you for an extra $25 or so per wheel. I've got custom offset WV steelies on my pile.

Another thing to be aware of is fit of center caps if you plan on running dog dishes with them. My caps wouldn't install on my WV steelies at all. There wasn't much of a retaining lip on the "retaining lugs" to keep them on. I had to do some creative grinding with a small carbide bit and even had to weld on one of the lugs to get them to snap on. Not sure if that's a common issue, but it's something I ran into.

The good thing was the back spacing was right where I needed it and runout was minimal.

67autocross · Jun 7, 2017

I would just find another 15 x 7 cop wheel and run them, 7 inch is wide enough for a 225 tire.

ValiantOne · Jun 7, 2017

67autocross said:
I would just find another 15 x 7 cop wheel and run them, 7 inch is wide enough for a 225 tire.

The cop rims were a second choice anyhow, but it was what I had. Bird in the hand. This may be my excuse to get what I really want.

67autocross · Jun 7, 2017

What ever you do steel wheels always look good on these cars

72bluNblu · Jun 7, 2017

15x8's with a 4.5" backspace are 0 offset, you'll have even less space to the fender up front. 15x7's with a 4.25" backspace (OE spec for cop rims) are +6 offset. 225's are about as wide as you can go up up front with those specs unless you've got a barracuda or you want to roll your fenders, then maybe a 235 but that's pushing it.

There's really no point in running 15x8's up front. You can run a 225 just fine on 15x7's and you can use OE offsets to do it. To run even a 225 on a 15x8 you'd need 4.75" of backspace, and that may give you grief on tie rod, brake and ball joint clearance. You won't be able to get much more backspace than that to work, so, you can't run more tire anyway.

To go to 8" wide rims up front and make it worthwhile you need at least 5.25" of backspace, and you need 17's to do that.

ValiantOne · Jun 8, 2017

72bluNblu said:
15x8's with a 4.5" backspace are 0 offset, you'll have even less space to the fender up front. 15x7's with a 4.25" backspace (OE spec for cop rims) are +6 offset. 225's are about as wide as you can go up up front with those specs unless you've got a barracuda or you want to roll your fenders, then maybe a 235 but that's pushing it.

There's really no point in running 15x8's up front. You can run a 225 just fine on 15x7's and you can use OE offsets to do it. To run even a 225 on a 15x8 you'd need 4.75" of backspace, and that may give you grief on tie rod, brake and ball joint clearance. You won't be able to get much more backspace than that to work, so, you can't run more tire anyway.

To go to 8" wide rims up front and make it worthwhile you need at least 5.25" of backspace, and you need 17's to do that.

Man I was hoping you'd show up on this thread. Guess I could have sent you a pm too! lol

The "+6" offset can't be inches can it? The hub register doesn't seem close enough to the face to be 6" positive offset. Or am I brain farting here?

If I cannot get an 8X15 rim up front it changes things yet again. I wanted to use the same size all around as I want an interchangable spare. It just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to use 15X8 on the rear even if it is the same diameter.

I just looked at Wheel Vintiques 15X7's oe steelies and they have 4" backspace. Would these work? The cop rims being 4.25 bs? And I have no idea what the offset is on the vintiques 15X7's ??

67autocross · Jun 8, 2017

ValiantOne said:
Man I was hoping you'd show up on this thread. Guess I could have sent you a pm too! lol

The "+6" offset can't be inches can it? The hub register doesn't seem close enough to the face to be 6" positive offset. Or am I brain farting here?

If I cannot get an 8X15 rim up front it changes things yet again. I wanted to use the same size all around as I want an interchangable spare. It just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to use 15X8 on the rear even if it is the same diameter.

I just looked at Wheel Vintiques 15X7's oe steelies and they have 4" backspace. Would these work? The cop rims being 4.25 bs? And I have no idea what the offset is on the vintiques 15X7's ??

On the front you would likely run into trouble with fender clearance with a 4 inch backspace 15 x 7

72bluNblu · Jun 8, 2017

Offset is measured in mm's. So a +6 offset is a 6mm offset, or about a 1/4". But offset is always listed in mm while backspace is listed in inches.

Offset is useful because if you keep the offset the same, the centerline of the rim stays in the same place even if you change the width of the rim. Backspace on the other hand changes, a 15x7" rim with a 4.5" backspace has a +12 offset, where a 15x8" with a 4.5" backspace is a 0 offset, and the centerline of the rim is a 1/2" different between those two rims.

On that note, a 15x7" with 4" of backspace is a 0 offset rim again, so you'd move the wheels a 1/4" out toward the fender. And that would probably mean you wouldn't be able to run a 225 anymore up front.

If you want to run the same size wheel all the way around, you're pretty much stuck with a 225/60/15, and there's nothing to be gained really from running a 225 on a 15x8. The rim width range for a 225/60/15 is 6-8", and the measured rim is usually a 6.5", so even a 7" is wider than what they use to get the tire specs. And a 15x7" with a 4.25" backspace would be fine for that. If you could find a 15x7 with a 4.5" backspace that would be better, but that would probably have to be a custom rim. You might be able to run a 235/60/15 if you could get a 15x7 with a 4.5" backspace, but in the front you could run into issues at the lower corners of the wheel opening because of the height of that tire, especially on a Valiant. Some modifications at the lower corners might be needed.

And this is why 17's and 18's make so much sense. With a 17x8" and 5.25" of backspace most BBP A-bodies could run a 245/45/17 all the way around with pretty much no modifications at all. Cars with 8 3/4's and BBP axles probably wouldn't even need a spacer in the back, 8.25 and 7.25" cars would though. And a 245/45/17 is a pretty popular size, so, lots of tire options. That's probably exactly what I'll do with my '71 GT, if I can stick with the plan and NOT do a 1/2" spring offset on that one.

ValiantOne · Jun 8, 2017

72bluNblu said:
And this is why 17's and 18's make so much sense. With a 17x8" and 5.25" of backspace most BBP A-bodies could run a 245/45/17 all the way around with pretty much no modifications at all. Cars with 8 3/4's and BBP axles probably wouldn't even need a spacer in the back, 8.25 and 7.25" cars would though. And a 245/45/17 is a pretty popular size, so, lots of tire options. That's probably exactly what I'll do with my '71 GT, if I can stick with the plan and NOT do a 1/2" spring offset on that one.

Hmmm 245's all the way around sounds pretty good. So, 5.25 of bs is a good starting point? I assume I have some measuring to do! And would the offset be 0?

Wonder if anyone makes steel rims in these sizes or if I'll have to do some sort of mag. Okay, time to do some internet searching.

Thank you,

C

72bluNblu · Jun 8, 2017

ValiantOne said:
Hmmm 245's all the way around sounds pretty good. So, 5.25 of bs is a good starting point? I assume I have some measuring to do! And would the offset be 0?

Wonder if anyone makes steel rims in these sizes or if I'll have to do some sort of mag. Okay, time to do some internet searching.

Thank you,

C

17x8 with a 5.25" backspace is a +19 offset. If you want to run the same rims all the way around that's pretty much where you need to be. You can get away with 5" of backspace all the way around, but you'll be tight on the fenders up front. Like the same room I have with my 275's and I modified my lower front corner. So 5.25" is really closer to where you want to be. In the back you might need a small spacer, it will depend on your car. But with an 8 3/4 and BBP axles it should be the minimum clearance to the springs. I have 6" from the springs to the wheel mount on my Dart with the stock spring locations, so, 5.25" is backspace, another 1/2" in tire, an you've still got about a 1/4" to the spring. Little tight, but it'll depend on your section width, most 245/45/17's are around 9.6" so you'd only have a 1/4" or so hanging over the rim.

Here's your rim, same design I run on my Challenger. Not sure you'll find a steel rim in that kind of offset....

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vsw-141h7865gm19/overview/

ValiantOne · Jun 8, 2017

72bluNblu said:
17x8 with a 5.25" backspace is a +19 offset. If you want to run the same rims all the way around that's pretty much where you need to be. You can get away with 5" of backspace all the way around, but you'll be tight on the fenders up front. Like the same room I have with my 275's and I modified my lower front corner. So 5.25" is really closer to where you want to be. In the back you might need a small spacer, it will depend on your car. But with an 8 3/4 and BBP axles it should be the minimum clearance to the springs. I have 6" from the springs to the wheel mount on my Dart with the stock spring locations, so, 5.25" is backspace, another 1/2" in tire, an you've still got about a 1/4" to the spring. Little tight, but it'll depend on your section width, most 245/45/17's are around 9.6" so you'd only have a 1/4" or so hanging over the rim.

Here's your rim, same design I run on my Challenger. Not sure you'll find a steel rim in that kind of offset....
View attachment 1715055119
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vsw-141h7865gm19/overview/

Wow, those wheels aren't but a few dollars more than the steelies from Vintiques.

I'm going to go back and read this all very carefully. I've got some measuring to do too and I want to make sure I understand it!

Thanks,

CE

abodyjoe · Jun 8, 2017

i went with a 15x7 with 4.5" backspace.. car is running stock suspension, abody 8 3/4 with lbp and big car drum brakes out back and 73 disc brakes up front.. 225/60-15 tires all the way around..

here are some clearance pics that may help ya decide.. if i did it again i'd go 4.75 backspace...