Z-bar too narrow?

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Nick I

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Here's a head scratcher. To me anyways.

Specs: 1967 Barracuda Formula S, factory 383 4-speed.

Situation: Recently put the 'original' motor and transmission back in after rebuild. Measured everything to make sure the motor is back in it's original spot. It still has the 915 heads on it.

Problem: I also put TTI 1 3/4 full length headers and their z-bar kit on. When I push the z-bar fully towards the bell housing, so the trans side arm clears the header, I'm left with a 5/8" gap between the fender and the fender side stud. Has anyone seen this before? Did I get the wrong z bar from TTI? Am I just completely stupid and have missed something?

PS: TTI instructions had me grind away a **** ton of metal from the pivot arm that attaches to the bell housing and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

PXL_20220908_015148623.jpg
 
The wire/spring is supposed to be in groove of white plastic bushes.
The motor end slides in/out, to allow engine roll/movement .
 
The wire/spring is supposed to be in groove of white plastic bushes.
The motor end slides in/out, to allow engine roll/movement .

Thanks! That's how I have it installed.

Edit: if I push it hard towards the fender, allowing me to secure the fender pivot., the z-bar arm that connects to the fork hits the header.
 
Down piece to clutch fork between top collector tubes ?
If you move zbar to fender, does it fall off trans ball , or expose trans white bush ?




Edit
 
Do those cars not have a bracket that the z bar ball mounts to like the early cars?
 
Down piece to clutch fork between top collector tubes ?
If you move zbar to fender, does it fall off trans ball , or expose trans white bush ?




Edit
No it's still on but the arm is hitting the #1 header tube and scraping the coating.
 
Thanks! That's how I have it installed.

Edit: if I push it hard towards the fender, allowing me to secure the fender pivot., the z-bar arm that connects to the fork hits the header.

Bend/adjust in/out down arm to between top tubes, should then be lined up with fork.
Straight push back, no angle.
RRR - yes


EDIT
 
Do those cars not have a bracket that the z bar ball mounts to like the early cars?

The stock bracket on the transmission stuck out much furth than the kit. I'm wonder if there was supposed to be something on the inside of the fender apron?
 
You got the Z-bar on the right way? One arm has an off-set to it? Just a thought, thinkin of D100 stuff.
 
That is the wrong pivot ball on the fender side.
It's the one from the Brewers big block kit. Can you tell me what I should have?
the kit from brewers said, will not work with tti headers, looks like you will have to fabricate the z bar to work, but the z bar should be all the way over toward the inner fender ball stud needs to be tight against inner fender.
 
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I'm sorry, I missed the Brewer's big block kit thing.
That's a valid point.
He has TTI z- bar .
Down lever still often needs tweeking to miss tubes and align to clutch fork to DIRECTLY push straight back . This affects pedal effort .
Hope it helps .
 
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the kit from brewers said, will not work with tti headers, looks like you will have to fabricate the z bar to work, but the z bar should be all the way over toward the inner fender ball stud needs to be tight against inner fender.
The pivot hardware is brewers and the z-bar is TTI.
 
The factory pivot ball, frame side
100_3033.JPG
should look more like this. The picture is belhousing side- your side should have a similar ball and stem, no bracket, but have male threads and nut to bolt to inner fender.
 
The factory pivot ball, frame side View attachment 1715982686 should look more like this. The picture is belhousing side- your side should have a similar ball and stem, no bracket, but have male threads and nut to bolt to inner fender.

It is just a pivot on a threaded stud. There's also the backing welded to the fender on the tire side. I think with the clip reset and maybe a shim or two, I should be good to go.
 
You can shim the frame-side in/out to locate the other end such that it clears the headers BUT, the down rod more or less has to remain in the center of the firewall cutout. To make that happen, you can bend the lever as required but if you do, you have to double-bend it to offset it, so that the downrod stays on the pin.(*1 )
You can move the inboard floating-end ball in out by shimming it at the BH.
The Z-bar tube after installation, should be at 90* to the vehicle centerline in plan view, and parallel to the ground in end-view.
The lever that pushes the fork-rod, should be adjusted to push straight back, so it stays on the pin. If you bend it you will have to again double-bend it in an offset, so the adjuster-rod stays on the pin.(*1)

The TO fork should be about centered vertically in the BH window, and towards the engine side of the window in the horizontal, but leaving just enough room for the rubber bellows/boot. When you push the clutch-pedal down, the TO fork should move smoothly to the rear of the car, and your clutch departure should be about .080 with a 3-finger clutch; can be down to half that with a diaphragm, so long as the gears in the trans actually stop spinning in a reasonable period of time, and there is no grinding or creep. You should NOT have to push the pedal to the floor. If you do, then you have the wrong pedal-ratio. Half to three-quarters should be enough.
There is provision on the TO fork, to install an anti-rattle spring on it, to pull it towards the engine. There is a corresponding cut-out, close to the starter, on the BH face that bolts to the block. This is to pull the TO bearing OFF the PP. Not all models got the spring but the provision is there so I use it.

With TTIs yur gonna find out that adjusting the Freeplay is a royal PITA. To mitigate this, instead of having the semi-locking adjuster nut on the engine side of the TO fork, I put a standard nut there, that is easy to turn with just my fingers. Then I install the half-ball swivel, then a spacer , then a lock nut last. The spacer needs to push the lock-nut out for access by a deep socket.
Now, to set your freeplay, all I do is crack the lock nut, and unwind it a couple of turns, then twist the adjuster nut, and lock it up tight again; it takes longer to put the car up on the curb than to do the adjustment and it can be done with HOT headers, but you gotta use a rag or a glove to protect your knuckles.. To prevent the loss of the lock nut and subsequent loss of freeplay, I drill the Pushrod and install a hairpin or a cotterpin.
Now, here's why I do this, I mean besides that it makes it a whole lot easier to adjust the freeplay;
the factory freeplay is rather generous, and it is made that way so you can go about a year before the pedal comes up, because the freeplay is disappearing. With the ease of adjustment now, I run the freeplay much much less than the factory spec. This has two benefits; 1) the declutching is almost instant, and 2) the pedal travel to get the required departure, is much much less.
The Con is that you gotta stay aware of the minimum freeplay so you don't wear out your TO bearing when it starts spinning along with the PP. I get about 5000 miles out of an adjustment. Since my car is no longer a DD, that translates to once a year.........


Note-1
When I say stays on the pin, I mean that the two pieces in motion, slide by each other in the same plain. Obviously, the way those pieces are made, they will stay on the pin. But if they are not sliding past eachother properly, they will tend to spit the retaining-clip off, and once the clip is gone, then it can happen, and if it does so in traffic, that sucks so much.....

Note-2
The engine often has to be raised or moved over to one side, for best fit of the TTIs. Of course, wherever the engine goes, the BH goes with it. And so fitting the Z-bar is always a challenge. Because the 67 to 72 engine mounts are biscuits,they are not all that strong and you should be thinking of installing a Torque strap. The strap will help keep the Z-bar moving in a constant plain, so that every clutch-event is more or less the same as the last. To help keep the engine in place in the fore and aft direction, I installed a spool mount rear crossmember.
 
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You can shim the frame-side in/out to locate the other end such that it clears the headers BUT, the down rod more or less has to remain in the center of the firewall cutout. To make that happen, you can bend the lever as required but if you do, you have to double-bend it to offset it, so that the downrod stays on the pin.(*1 )
You can move the inboard floating-end ball in out by shimming it at the BH.
The Z-bar tube after installation, should be at 90* to the vehicle centerline in plan view, and parallel to the ground in end-view.
The lever that pushes the fork-rod, should be adjusted to push straight back, so it stays on the pin. If you bend it you will have to again double-bend it in an offset, so the adjuster-rod stays on the pin.(*1)

The TO fork should be about centered vertically in the BH window, and towards the engine side of the window in the horizontal, but leaving just enough room for the rubber bellows/boot. When you push the clutch-pedal down, the TO fork should move smoothly to the rear of the car, and your clutch departure should be about .080 with a 3-finger clutch; can be down to half that with a diaphragm, so long as the gears in the trans actually stop spinning in a reasonable period of time, and there is no grinding or creep. You should NOT have to push the pedal to the floor. If you do, then you have the wrong pedal-ratio. Half to three-quarters should be enough.
There is provision on the TO fork, to install an anti-rattle spring on it, to pull it towards the engine. There is a corresponding cut-out, close to the starter, on the BH face that bolts to the block. This is to pull the TO bearing OFF the PP. Not all models got the spring but the provision is there so I use it.

With TTIs yur gonna find out that adjusting the Freeplay is a royal PITA. To mitigate this, instead of having the semi-locking adjuster nut on the engine side of the TO fork, I put a standard nut there, that is easy to turn with just my fingers. Then I install the half-ball swivel, then a spacer , then a lock nut last. The spacer needs to push the lock-nut out for access by a deep socket.
Now, to set your freeplay, all I do is crack the lock nut, and unwind it a couple of turns, then twist the adjuster nut, and lock it up tight again; it takes longer to put the car up on the curb than to do the adjustment and it can be done with HOT headers, but you gotta use a rag or a glove to protect your knuckles.. To prevent the loss of the lock nut and subsequent loss of freeplay, I drill the Pushrod and install a hairpin or a cotterpin.
Now, here's why I do this, I mean besides that it makes it a whole lot easier to adjust the freeplay;
the factory freeplay is rather generous, and it is made that way so you can go about a year before the pedal comes up, because the freeplay is disappearing. With the ease of adjustment now, I run the freeplay much much less than the factory spec. This has two benefits; 1) the declutching is almost instant, and 2) the pedal travel to get the required departure, is much much less.
The Con is that you gotta stay aware of the minimum freeplay so you don't wear out your TO bearing when it starts spinning along with the PP. I get about 5000 miles out of an adjustment. Since my car is no longer a DD, that translates to once a year.........


Note-1
When I say stays on the pin, I mean that the two pieces in motion, slide by each other in the same plain. Obviously, the way those pieces are made, they will stay on the pin. But if they are not sliding past eachother properly, they will tend to spit the retaining-clip off, and once the clip is gone, then it can happen, and if it does so in traffic, that sucks so much.....

Note-2
The engine often has to be raised or moved over to one side, for best fit of the TTIs. Of course, wherever the engine goes, the BH goes with it. And so fitting the Z-bar is always a challenge. Because the 67 to 72 engine mounts are biscuits,they are not all that strong and you should be thinking of installing a Torque strap. The strap will help keep the Z-bar moving in a constant plain, so that every clutch-event is more or less the same as the last. To help keep the engine in place in the fore and aft direction, I installed a spool mount rear crossmember.
A lot of outstanding info here. I did replace the mounts with the Mancini flavor that have the locking plates in the rubber and also stand up taller. That plus a shim on the mounts for header clearance would explain the change in distance. My dumbass moment for this issue forgetting basic geometry.

This weekend I plan on fixing the fender side pin for the pivot bushings and shimming it out about 1/4 inch. I'll check alignment of arms and linkage then bend as necessary.

Definitely going to modify the TO fork linkage based on your post. Quite a pain to get the initial done.

Do you think a torque strap is still necessary for a motor only making 400 hp and 435 torque (optimal dyno conditions) at the flywheel?
 
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