Zero offset on 14 x 7" rim wheels for P245 60 R14 on stock 1969 Dart, anyone could tell???

[DLJ]

Hi guys, I have a big question... could anyone tell me if there is any info about what would be the shorter backspacing on a 14x7" rim wheel for fitting a P245 60 R14 without issues on a stock 1969 DART?
Has anyone here rolled the rear inner fender lips for extra 3/8" clearance on a 1969 like Dart?

I have a 1976 4 door Dart assembled in Brazil, which is mostly equivalent to the 1969 Darts made in the US, except for a few items like stock front sway bar and disk brakes.

I've been doing some work on it for the past couple months in order to get it decent for roads and streets again, after about 20+ yrs sitting in the garage... and decided to use wider tires and wheels to make it look nicer.

Long story short, got a set of 4 P245 60 R14 and a set of vintage aluminum rim wheels (which I always wanted) from the 70's (not cheap here).

Just received the tires and rims and now figured I might have @*#$%¨*& up

The rim backspace is the opposite of what I expected.
Once I had another set of aluminum rim wheels from the same manufacturer, same year range, for the same car (stamped DART on the back), I thought the backspacing would be the same. These are rare here these days.

Anyway, my new rim wheels were costly and I do not want to give up on them, they are 7" wide, 14" diameter and backspace is 3.54".

The other aluminum rim wheels I have had a 3.94" backspace, which would be just the limit for fitting the tires.

The stock steel rims are 5.5X14" ralliesand I had a set of 4 P205 70 R14 on them which would clear from rear fender lips like

I can't figure right now how bad it is because I have all suspension off the car, front and rear but did some measuring and I think I'd be short like 0.28" on the right rear fender lip.
I previously measured the clearance from rear tire to inner rear fender lip with my old P205 70 R14 and I had 1.97" on the left and 1.58" on the right side (pics below with old 205 tires and steel rims).
Now, if my calculation is right and both sides keep the same clearances after new bushings and leaf spring lift, I may have to roll the fender lips specially on the right side.

Front does not concern me much now because the tires have a narrower thread and the width drops quite well... need to experiment later on...

 

[DLJ]

Here she is before I got started. The 205 70 R14 on steel rims. I lowered the front about 1" and plan on rearching the rear of the leaf springs to lift the rear bumper about 4 inches (looks way too low now). Anyone knows how much i'll have to lift the rear end of the leaf spring to raise the rear bumper 4 inches? I read that if you use longer shackles 1/3 of the extra length will be the raised value on the rear axle so I plan on lifting 3 inches at the rear end of the leaf springs, is that too much? Will not touch the front half of the leaf spring.

 

[Hellrats]

I have 14x7 rims on the back of my Scamp but I had rims custom made. I had them take a factory style rallye rim and add all of the added width to the inside. That way it looks stock when looking at the side of the car and the trim ring still fits correctly. I still had to roll the rear inner fender lips so the tires (245/60/14) didn't rub. That was as wide as I could go with the springs still in the stock location. If you do a search on here I think someone had pictures and tire sizes that they used.

 

[KosmicKuda]

All factory 15 x 7 rims have a B.S. of 4.25. Those seem to work well on most Mopars including a bodies.

Because your suspension is removed from the car.....can you mock up the new tires/wheels on the ground?
Put them in place with the body dropped down over them. I'd leave about 1.2-1.3 cm between the outer tire bulge and the quarter panel lip. Then carefully measure between the mounting faces of the wheels, left to right. Compare that measurement to the ovrrall wheel mounting surface dimension on your rear brake drums.
That should tell you if you have a chance on fitting these.

 

[69_340_GTS]

Getting a 245 tire on the back of a stock '67-'69 Dart is difficult. 7" wheels with about 4.50" backspacing is where I'd start. You may get lucky and that backspace wheel with the 245 tire will fit without modifying anything. However, the way your car sits (so low) is making the clearance problem even worse. Stock height or even better about 1" higher will help with outer fender clearance.

 

[DLJ]

I have 14x7 rims on the back of my Scamp but I had rims custom made. I had them take a factory style rallye rim and add all of the added width to the inside. That way it looks stock when looking at the side of the car and the trim ring still fits correctly. I still had to roll the rear inner fender lips so the tires (245/60/14) didn't rub. That was as wide as I could go with the springs still in the stock location. If you do a search on here I think someone had pictures and tire sizes that they used.

Thanks Hellrats,
In your oppinion what would be the least clearance from the rear tire to the inner fender lip in order to never have rubbing? 3/8" would be my guess...

Once I will take a few weeks till I can re-assemble the rear axle, got very curious so I put the new wheels and tires on the axle at the bench and measured total width, which is 67.32 inches, side to side 32psi on tires, then I managed to hang a string on each rear fender on the inside lip and measured total clearance, which was 67.72 inches, which made me happy because I know I have about 3/8" clearance.

Once I had that clearance only on the driver side, before disassembling, if it remains there, I might be able to cut the passenger side inner lip about 3/8", or perhaps roll it...

We will see, but the thing is, these 7x14" rims have zero offset, if the backspace was at least 3/8" larger, it would be just perfect for the 245 60 R14. Still room between the tires and the leaf springs.

 

[DLJ]

All factory 15 x 7 rims have a B.S. of 4.25. Those seem to work well on most Mopars including a bodies.

Because your suspension is removed from the car.....can you mock up the new tires/wheels on the ground?
Put them in place with the body dropped down over them. I'd leave about 1.2-1.3 cm between the outer tire bulge and the quarter panel lip. Then carefully measure between the mounting faces of the wheels, left to right. Compare that measurement to the ovrrall wheel mounting surface dimension on your rear brake drums.
That should tell you if you have a chance on fitting these.

Hey KosmicKuda,

I will paste what i just posted here again, please let me know what you think...

Just some info, not sure why but the Darts were assembled in Brazil only from 1970 till 1981 and they had a 5 x 4.25 bolt pattern whells, from Simca (maybe some old affair or just to be different from GM and Ford BP here...), for some reason, so the rim wheels I managed to buy were made for the Brazilian Dart and the backspace on these 7" rims is not 4.25" but 3.54", that is why the tires are set to the outside, if the bs was 4" I`d be ok...

In your oppinion what would be the least clearance from the rear tire to the inner fender lip in order to never have rubbing? 3/8" would be my guess...

Below is what i did to figure how much clearance I have, just like you said...

Once I will take a few weeks till I can re-assemble the rear axle, got very curious so I put the new wheels and tires on the axle at the bench and measured total width, which is 67.32 inches, side to side 32psi on tires, then I managed to hang a string on each rear fender on the inside lip and measured total clearance, which was 67.72 inches, which made me happy because I know I have about 3/8" clearance.

Once I had that clearance only on the driver side, before disassembling, if it remains there, I might be able to cut the passenger side inner lip about 3/8", or perhaps roll it...

We will see, but the thing is, these 7x14" rims have zero offset, if the backspace was at least 3/8" larger, it would be just perfect for the 245 60 R14. Still room between the tires and the leaf springs.

 

[DLJ]

Getting a 245 tire on the back of a stock '67-'69 Dart is difficult. 7" wheels with about 4.50" backspacing is where I'd start. You may get lucky and that backspace wheel with the 245 tire will fit without modifying anything. However, the way your car sits (so low) is making the clearance problem even worse. Stock height or even better about 1" higher will help with outer fender clearance.

I total agree with you. I wanted this 4 door dart look more like a bada** with larger tires but did not know the backspace on the rims I bought was smaller than I expected.

Anyway, as I posted above, after doing some measuring, I must have about 3/8" clearance from total width of rear axle with tires and the rear inner fender lips, mostly on the driver side rear fender (where it was before) then, now I plan on rolling or cutting the inside lip on the passenger side, just enough.

Question now is, better cutting or rolling the fender lip??? There are 2 metal sheet spot welded together there, rolling at home would be looking for trouble IMHO... I rather cut the 3/8", if that is clearance enough...

Still, there will be plenty of room left between the rear tires and the leaf springs...

I am currently taking the leaf springs to rearch, I want to lift about 4" on the rear bumper, which would be about 1 inch on the rear axle as I gess...

How much lifting on the rear end of the stock leaf spring is necessary to raise the rear bumper 4"? I would try lifting 3 inches there, people say if you add longer shackles the measure added to the shackle translates into 1/3 at the rear axle.... is that right?

Thanks for your input folks

 

[DLJ]

Just updating, I managed the 245 60 R14 tires and 7x14 3.5" backspace rims to fit on the rear by cutting 1/2" off the inner fender lips and raising 1" the rear at rear axle. Now the clearance from inner fender lips and tire is 1/2" when the wider center part of the tire is leveled with the inner fender lip, I assume that will be enough.
The front suspension is still to be assembled and I got really concerned now once I bought all 4 tires and cannot return them.
You guys think I have a chance of fitting
245 60 R14 tires and 7x14 3.5" backspace on front once they did on the rear?
Any thoughts?

 

[DLJ]

Now the front, same rim wheels 14x7" 3.5" backspace and same tires P245 60 R14 as rear.

Unexpected issues, will try to pull sides of front fenders 0.5 inch out.

Rims should be 4" backspace...

Pictures taken with suspension on lowest position, no torsion bars.

I think I can make it work, will see.