Match Race = 1968 Road Runner '383' vs. 1964 Belvedere '426-S' Street Wedge

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69 Cuda 440

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'Econo-Racer' Street Musclecar Match Race

1968 Road Runner {383/335 HP}
* Coupe
* 4-Speed
* 3.91 Gears
* Shipping Weight....... #3422 lbs.

1964 Belvedere {426/365 HP}
* Coupe
* 4-Speed
* 3.91 Gears
* Shipping Weight...... #3465 lbs.
 
I am getting in on this one.Had a 65 Satellite 426 street wedge 4 speed. Not as refined as 68 RR bout would definitely out run.From experience,Kevin.
 
First Hand Experience,

With 3.91 Gears and a 4-Speed, the 1964 Belvedere {Shipping Weight; #3465 lbs.} was not to fool with.

Though the '426-S' {365 HP} was over-rated in the HP Department by the Factory, on the street it was consistently good.

* 365 HP @ 4800 RPM's
* 470 Ft/Lbs. of Torque @ 3200 RPM's

And, the 'Sedan' body style was 'stiff-and-rigid'.




[URL="https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.607992757393296388&pid=15.1"][URL="https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.607992757393296388&pid=15.1"]
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69 Cuda 440 said:
First Hand Experience,

With 3.91 Gears and a 4-Speed, the 1964 Belvedere {Shipping Weight; #3465 lbs.} was not to fool with.

Though the '426-S' {365 HP} was over-rated in the HP Department by the Factory, on the street it was consistently good.

* 365 HP @ 4800 RPM's
* 470 Ft/Lbs. of Torque @ 3200 RPM's

And, the 'Sedan' body style was 'stiff-and-rigid'.




[URL="https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.607992757393296388&pid=15.1"][URL="https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.607992757393296388&pid=15.1"]
[/URL][/URL]
Click to expand...


Yea Buddy!!
 
I'll take the RR, even if it's a tenth or two slower I'll take the beep beep LOL!!
 
1964 Plymouth Belvedere 'Sedan'

426-S 'Street Wedge'

Compression ............... 10.3 - 1
Piston Type.................. Flat Top
Piston Height................ {-.051"} Below Deck

Camshaft..................... Hydraulic
Lift............................. .431"/.431"
Duration...................... 268*/268*
Overlap....................... 48*

Cylinder Head.............. #2406516
Combustion Chamber.... Closed
CC Level {Factory}....... 79.5
CC Level {Minimum}..... 74.5
Intake Valve................. 2.08"
Exhaust Valve............... 1.60"
Valve Spring {Closed}... 134 lbs.
Valve Spring {Open}..... 208 lbs.

Intake Manifold............ Cast Iron
Style.......................... Dual Plane
Type.......................... Low Profile
Carb Pad Height.......... 3.70"

Carburetor................... Carter AFB
CFM............................ 575
Throttle Bore................ 1.437" x 1.563"
Venturi Size.................. 1.186" x 1.313"

Exhaust Manifolds
Style........................... Log Type
Outlet.......................... Rear Exit
Outlet Size................... 2.25"
Primary Exhaust Pipe.... 2.25"
Tail Pipe...................... 2.25"

Horsepower.................. 365 @ 4800 RPM's
Torque......................... 470 Ft/Lbs. @ 3200 RPM's

Shipping Weight............ #3465 lbs.

Weight-to-Horsepower... 9.52

1964 NHRA Class.......... A/Stock {9.50 - 10.59 Wt/Hp}

NHRA 'Stock' Horsepower Ratings
* {1964}... 365 HP ........ 9.52 Wt/Hp = {A/S = 9.50 to 10.59 Wt/Hp}
* {1968}... 365 HP......... 9.52 Wt/Hp = {D/S = 9.50 to 9.99 Wt/Hp}
* {1969}... 365 HP......... 9.52 Wt/Hp = {E/S = 9.50 to 9.99 Wt/Hp}
* {1970}... 365 HP......... 9.52 Wt/Hp = {F/S = 9.50 to 9.99 Wt/Hp}
* {1973}... 365 HP......... 9.52 Wt/Hp = {F/S = 9.50 to 9.99 Wt/Hp}
* {1976}... 340 HP........ 10.19 Wt/Hp = {E/S = 10.00 to 10.49 Wt/Hp}
* {1979}... 325 HP........ 10.66 Wt/Hp = {F/S = 10.50 to 10.99 Wt/Hp}
* {1991}... 320 HP........ 10.83 Wt/Hp = {F/S = 10.50 to 10.99 Wt/Hp}
* {2002}... 300 HP........ 11.55 Wt/Hp = {H/S = 11.50 to 11.99 Wt/Hp}
* {2012}... 296 HP........ 11.70 Wt/Hp = {H/S = 11.50 to 11.99 Wt/Hp}
* {2013}... 291 HP........ 11.90 Wt/Hp = {H/S = 11.50 to 11.99 Wt/Hp}
-----------------------------------------------------------------

* Tested Car {Stock Components} 4-Speed and 3.91 Gears
* Performance.......... 14.30 @ 97 MPH
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
1964 Plymouth Belvedere 'Sedan'

426-S 'Street Wedge'

Compression ............... 10.3 - 1
Piston Type.................. Flat Top
Piston Height................ {-.051"} Below Deck

Camshaft..................... Hydraulic
Lift............................. .431"/.431"
Duration...................... 268*/268*
Overlap....................... 48*

Cylinder Head.............. #2406516
Combustion Chamber.... Closed
CC Level {Factory}....... 79.5
CC Level {Minimum}..... 74.5
Intake Valve................. 2.08"
Exhaust Valve............... 1.60"
Valve Spring {Closed}... 134 lbs.
Valve Spring {Open}..... 208 lbs.

Intake Manifold............ Cast Iron
Style.......................... Dual Plane
Type.......................... Low Profile
Carb Pad Height.......... 3.70"

Carburetor................... Carter AFB
CFM............................ 575
Throttle Bore................ 1.437" x 1.563"
Venturi Size.................. 1.186" x 1.313"

Exhaust Manifolds
Style........................... Log Type
Outlet.......................... Rear Exit
Outlet Size................... 2.25"
Primary Exhaust Pipe.... 2.25"
Tail Pipe...................... 2.25"

Horsepower.................. 365 @ 4800 RPM's
Torque......................... 470 Ft/Lbs. @ 3200 RPM's

Shipping Weight............ #3465 lbs.

Weight-to-Horsepower... 9.52

1964 NHRA Class.......... A/Stock {9.50 - 10.59 Wt/Hp}

Refactored Horsepower
* {1976}... 340 HP
* {1979}... 325 HP
* {2004}... 318 HP
* {2010}... 310 HP
* {2012}... 296 HP
* {2013}... 291 HP
-----------------------------------------------------------------

* Tested Car {Stock Components} 4-Speed and 3.91 Gears
* Performance.......... 14.30 @ 97 MPH
Click to expand...

Headers/3310 Holley jetted right/matching intake/more valve spring pressure full open,should be hell of a runner. I see the h.p. refractories downward ,year to year. Is this because of lack of racers pushing this particular combination further? (Don't know NHRA class racing political).....
 
My bud's first car was a 64' Belvedere with a 4spd, 383 4bbl & 3.91's. And it would run with any stock 383 RR at the time. I have no doubt a stock, long stroke, 426 would "torque" it's way around a stock 3.38" engine in factory configuration.
 
I'll take the wedge for the win, but I'll take the RR in looks, and to go cruis'n
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
1964 Plymouth Belvedere 'Sedan' ........................ 1968 Plymouth Road Runner 'Coupe'

426-S 'Street Wedge' ................................................... 383 Road Runner

Bore............................ 4.25" ............................................ 4.25"
Stroke......................... 3.75" ............................................ 3.375"

Compression ............... 10.3 - 1 ......................................... 10.0 - 1
Piston Type.................. Flat Top ......................................... Flat Top
Piston Height................ {-.051"} Below Deck ...................... {+.21"} Above Deck

Camshaft..................... Hydraulic ........................................ Hydraulic
Lift............................. .431"/.431" ..................................... .450"/.458"
Duration...................... 268*/268* ....................................... 268*/284*
Overlap....................... 48* ................................................... 46*

Cylinder Head.............. #2406516 ......................................... #2843906
Combustion Chamber.... Closed ................................................ Open
CC Level {Factory}....... 79.5 .................................................... 88.0
CC Level {Minimum}..... 74.5 .................................................... 79.5
Intake Valve................. 2.08" ................................................... 2.08"
Exhaust Valve............... 1.60" ................................................... 1.74"
Valve Spring {Closed}... 134 lbs. ............................................... 134 lbs.
Valve Spring {Open}..... 208 lbs. ............................................... 258 lbs.

Intake Manifold............ Cast Iron .............................................. Cast Iron
Style.......................... Dual Plane ............................................. Dual Plane
Type.......................... Low Profile ............................................ Low-to-Medium Profile
Carb Pad Height.......... 3.30" .................................................... 3.44"

Carburetor................... Carter AFB {#3611} .............................. Carter AVS {#4426}
CFM............................ 575 ...................................................... 625
Throttle Bore................ 1.437" x 1.563" ..................................... 1.437" x 1.686"
Venturi Size.................. 1.186" x 1.313" ..................................... 1.186" x AV

Exhaust Manifolds
Style........................... Log Type ................................................ Swept Design
Outlet.......................... Rear Exit ................................................ Rear Exit
Outlet Size................... 2.25" ...................................................... 2.50"
Primary Exhaust Pipe.... 2.25" ....................................................... 2.50"
Tail Pipe...................... 2.25" ....................................................... 2.25"

Horsepower................ 365 @ 4800 RPM's ...................................... 335 @ 5000 RPM's
Torque....................... 470 Ft/Lbs. @ 3200 RPM's............................ 425 Ft/Lbs @ 3400 RPM's
.
Shipping Weight............ #3465 lbs. ............................................... 3422 Lbs.

Weight-to-Horsepower... 9.52 ........................................................ 10.21

1964 NHRA Class.......... A/Stock {9.50 - 10.59 Wt/Hp} ................... 1968 NHRA Class .... E/Stock {10.00 to 10.49 Wt/Hp}

NHRA 'Stock' Horsepower Ratings
* {1964}... 365 HP ........ 9.52 Wt/Hp = {A/S}
* {1968}... 365 HP......... 9.52 Wt/Hp = {D/S} ----------------------- {1968} ... 335 HP.... 10.21 Wt/Hp = {E/S}
* {1969}... 365 HP......... 9.52 Wt/Hp = {E/S} ----------------------- {1969} ... 335 HP ... 10.21 Wt/Hp = {F/S}
* {1970}... 365 HP......... 9.52 Wt/Hp = {F/S} ----------------------- {1970} ... 335 HP ... 10.21 Wt/Hp = {G/S}
* {1973}... 365 HP......... 9.52 Wt/Hp = {D/S} ----------------------- {1973} ... 335 HP ... 10.21 Wt/Hp = {E/S}
* {1976}... 340 HP........ 10.19 Wt/Hp = {E/S}----------------------- {1976} ... 320 HP ... 10.72 Wt/Hp = {F/S}
* {1979}... 325 HP........ 10.66 Wt/Hp = {F/S}----------------------- {1979} .... 315 HP .. 10.86 Wt/Hp = {F/S}
* {1991}... 320 HP........ 10.83 Wt/Hp = {F/S} ---------------------- {1991} .... 310 HP ... 11.04 Wt/Hp = {G/S}
* {1995}... 315 HP........ 11.00 Wt/Hp = {G/S} ---------------------- {1995} ... 300 HP ... 11.40 Wt/Hp = {G/S}
* {2002}... 300 HP........ 11.55 Wt/Hp = {H/S} ---------------------- {2002} ... 300 HP ... 11.40 Wt/Hp = {G/S}
* {2012}... 296 HP........ 11.70 Wt/Hp = {H/S} ---------------------- {2012} ... 300 HP ... 11.40 Wt/Hp = {G/S}
* {2013}... 291 HP........ 11.90 Wt/Hp = {H/S} ---------------------- {2013} -- 300 HP ... 11.40 Wt/Hp = {G/S}
-----------------------------------------------------------------

* Tested Cars {Stock Components} 4-Speed, w/3.91 Gears and 7" Cheater Slicks

* Performance.......... 14.26 @ 97.50 MPH .................................. 14.28 @ 99.77 MPH
Click to expand...

Very few 426-S Mopars were found at the Drag Strip after 1969.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
{1964 an 1965} Mopar 426-S 'Street Wedge'

Exhaust Manifolds

Click to expand...

OK ya got me all fired up.. I'll take the 426 Street Wedge, BUT the part that got me was these damned exhaust manifolds.. why so much different then the normal ones used on the 440 or hell I even think I seen the same ones on the 413.....But this one has "log" looking headers? What gives? Weren't the heads from the factory for the 413, 426 and the 440 all the same? IN the day that is! NOT aftermarke stuff....

OR are these manifolds seen here, common and I haven't noticed them, till now?
 
67 Power Wagon said:
OK ya got me all fired up.. I'll take the 426 Street Wedge, BUT the part that got me was these damned exhaust manifolds.. why so much different then the normal ones used on the 440 or hell I even think I seen the same ones on the 413.....But this one has "log" looking headers? What gives? Weren't the heads from the factory for the 413, 426 and the 440 all the same? IN the day that is! NOT aftermarke stuff....

OR are these manifolds seen here, common and I haven't noticed them, till now?
Click to expand...

HP manifolds aren't actually all that good, IQ52 did some dyno testing with various parts on a '72 440:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=249866
 
67 Power Wagon,

The 1964 and 1965 {426-S} Street Wedge Exhaust Manifolds were 'special' for their day.

#2203262 {Left Side}
#2205898 {Right Side}

They are Log-Type with rear exit outlet {2.25" Outlet Size}

They were better than the 1964/1965 {383/330 HP} Exhaust Manifolds which were
Log-Type with a center positioned exit outlet.

As for the Cylinder Heads, the 1964 and 1965 {426-S} Street Wedge had the #2406516 {Closed Chamber},
which were the same as the 383/330 HP.

* 2.08" Intake
* 1.60" Exhaust
 
Real world testing has shown that even the upswept HP manifolds (which was also rear exit) are just as restrictive as plain log manifolds. Log with rear exit will be just as restrictive as center exit, if not more.

So basically both are stuck with restrictive exhaust. The fancy upswept HP manifolds on the RR won't factor for much. IMO it comes down to the 426 having +43 inches and a more favorable torque curve to deal with the B body weight. Give them both enough bite and the 426 will jump ahead and stay ahead every time.
 
considering equal gearing and tires the ROADRUNNER would win.. 426-s was overrated.. most ran mid 15's at best... road runners high 14's..
 
I'm a small block guy, but off the top of my head, I believe the Road Runner 383 has a bigger carb, bigger cam (from 440), 1.74" vs 1.60" exhaust valve and stiffer valve springs which would help it rev higher. Don't know if there was much difference in head flow on the intake side.

The shorter stroke/less torque may actually help get it off the line with less spin.

It doesn't appear so certain that the 426 would be faster, despite the extra cubic inches & HP rating (which were often inaccurate.).

Been looking for the 383 RR enginespecs but haven't found them yet.
 
I wonder anyone on this site has a '64 or '65 street wedge in stock form...would be interested in having them chime in.
 
69 Cuda 440 posted cam info here last year.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=254943&highlight=Darren

Now we just gotta find the carb size.

FWIW, at about the same overall weight, the Road Runner may have a slightly better weight distribution (towards the rear) because a B-engine is lighter than an RB engine. (25-50 lbs?)

Almost forgot.....I've also heard from some reliable sources (class racers) that the OEM 426W intake was not a good design. The 383 was better there as well.
 
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