j par
Well-hung Member
well that couldn't mean a whole lot but something they charge you for. Obviously they put out an extremely inferior product.Yes the shop that built the engine took them apart and inspected.
well that couldn't mean a whole lot but something they charge you for. Obviously they put out an extremely inferior product.Yes the shop that built the engine took them apart and inspected.
YesDid you take it somewhere in Medford?
Oil psi was @70 cold 60 hot. Yes all oil gally plugs were installed. I was running the break in oil used by the engine builder not sure of the brand but know it was proper break oil. Its a LA block. Yes. I have serched fourms for multiple issues this being one of them. With retro rollers the geometry is very off. The engine was tested for clearance. I was there that day and no cool bond was evident. Both cams were still below lift specs of eddy heads. Just bad luck? Don't know....need much more info: what kind of oil pressure are you running? Are you POSITIVE ALL the oil gallery plugs are installed? What kind of oil are you using? Is this LA or Magnum? Have you searched archives for threads on proper rocker geometry? Also, there can be problems with insufficient retainer to guide (and seal) clearance in addition to coil-bind. All the aforementioned problems (and probably some more i failed to mention) are fairly common in builds by "non-Mopar fluent" engine builders.
J.RobOne thing that comes to mind is that a Blueprint 408 crate engine with their warranty is looking pretty sweet about now. Yes it is, hindsight is always 20/20
Your builder sounds like a real dick to me. Sounds like he's at a loss here
He should make it right, lord knows how much you spent there on this build. Agreed
If it's a parts defective problem, he could back charge the supplier in yours and his behalf. Mfg's will tell the builder to go pound sand as in " We've never heard of that issue before!?--must be you--click...dial tone. The only recourse for the builder is to boycott either that product or the offending company's entire line.
To me, the only reason that he wouldn't stand by his product/build is if he screwed up.
That's the thing that truly sucks about some people.
Good luck, i hope it turns out well for you in the long run............
Option B-
Solid flat tappet cam, edm lifters, suitable springs, pushrods. <<< This is the solution
This will require breaking in the cam with inner springs removed, and a high quality break in oil.
The springs that come with the rpm heads aren’t suitable for anything but the mildest of solid flat tappet cams. Ditch the springs for anything more than an old hyd flat grind like a MP .484"
There is an ever growing list of threads, videos, etc, of people who have had less than stellar results with retrofit hyd cam conversions....... enough so they really aren’t something I can confidently recommend any longer........ unless you’re willing to get the lifter bores bushed. Agreed again, haven't built a hyd roller combo in awhile unless it was an LS or G3. Problem isn't really just the lifter bores it is just shitty aftermarket hydraulic rollers being built--maybe counterfeit?
If you’re going to use/using a block that originally came with hyd roller lifters....... you have a better chance of success imo.Agreed see above LS/G3 ref. [/QUOTE]
As usual Dwayne, spot on. I find myself going back to the venerable solid flat tappet in cases where budget and reliability are a priority. J.Rob
race season is 2 months away.
YesDid you take it somewhere in Medford?
Yes, the shop looked at them said they were GTG.Out of the box eddelbrock? Did you have them checked over?
Was this built to be a bracket race type motor? (It was built to be a hot/street and strip engine.)
I don’t know what the first cam that failed was, but the as supplied springs aren’t suitable for anything hyd roller, other than maybe a stock replacement type cam.
I doubt this had anything to do with the collapsed lifter........ but it would be interesting to know how the conversation went with regards to how the engine would be used.......(The builder knew I was doing a hot street / strip motor for my 73 Roadrunner) and then the thought process behind retaining the as supplied springs when the decision was made to swap to the HR cam. The builder said he would test the springs to make sure they were within the spring pressure guidelines for the hy roller, a few days later he called me and said they were within specs, so I didn't need to change them.
I can’t imagine those little springs would have survived very long trying to maintain control of the now heavier valvetrain with repeated high rpm use.
What was the original cam anyway? The Original can was a Comp cams #20-225-4 .507/510 240/[email protected]
Is the current problem lifter “soft”, or “stuck”? soft
Soft lifter?
I suspect debris in the lifter is the culprit.
If you could get it out without pulling the heads, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal.
But alas, I don’t think you can.
Also, with many hyd roller lifters you can’t get the internals out of the body without grinding the link bar retaining rivet off....... so they’d need to be replaced.
Regardless of what else I did, I’d pull it apart to see if that’s why it was soft.
If there’s debris in it...... that’s not a defective part type of problem.
FWIW, the spring listed for use with the new hyd roller cam has a noticeably higher rate than the Ede springs(as you’d expect with the heavier lifters).
344lbs/in for the Ede, 402lbs/in for the Comp.
My budget is blown. I'll be learning how to do this my self. I don't have the extra funds to go have another shop go to town on it. I'm sure I can do the cam swap myself. Talking to a few paces, and reading a bunch of materials, I know what I need to do. I'm buying an engine stand, and will be pulling it apart in the next few weeks. I have gotten with Tim at Hughes engines and have a parts list on order. I just have to follow the instructions, and do it right the first time.I remember this story.
Sounds like you have 3 options:
- pay original shop to do it
- pay another shop to do it
- learn how to start doing this kind of work yourself.
My budget is blown. I'll be learning how to do this my self. I don't have the extra funds to g have another shop go to town. I'm sure I can do this my self. Talking to a few paces I know what I need to do. I'm buying an engine stand, and will be pulling it apart in the next few weeks. I have gotten with Tim at Hughes engines and have a parts list on order. I just have to follow the instructions, and do it right the first time.
I feel I will get this past my learning curve. Once I'm done I'll let you guys know how it all went.
Once I'm done I'll let you guys know how it all went.
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I can’t imagine those little springs would have survived very long trying to maintain control of the now heavier valvetrain with repeated high rpm use.
..............
Is that not literally the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again expecting diffrent results?Obviously, the cheapest and easiest repair is to pull the one head and just replace the one pair of lifters.
There are 2 version of springs that you can buy from Edelbrock on their heads setup OOTB: one set for flat tappet and a different set for rollers. They have different assembly PN's for the 2 different spring sets on a given casting. So it depends on what Edelbrock PN was purchased; that hopefully could be found on the original build list. If they originally were for the flat tappets and the rollers were put in with those springs, then, it might well be some valve float or valvetrain resonances going on now.This was my first thought as well...the springs that come with the Eddy heads are made for flat tappet lifters. They are not made to handle a much heavier roller lifter. Even mild roller cams like what the OP described would need more spring. I would not go back to that builder again....
I am aware that the eddy springs are different. I do not have the OEM part number other than whats on the heads. They do not have the last digit of the part number to tell if they were set up as a roller or tappet cam. That is the biggest problem so far. I am going to go the way of Hugues engines recommendations and go with a Mechanical flat tappet cam Hughes Engines , EDM light weight lifters Hughes Engines , a set of springs Hughes Engines , Cometic head gaskets, and any thing else I can find should be about another grand total.... Ill have 7 roller lifters and a roller cam for sale shortly...There are 2 version of springs that you can buy from Edelbrock on their heads setup OOTB: one set for flat tappet and a different set for rollers. They have different assembly PN's for the 2 different spring sets on a given casting. So it depends on what Edelbrock PN was purchased; that hopefully could be found on the original build list. If they originally were for the flat tappets and the rollers were put in with those springs, then, it might well be some valve float or valvetrain resonances going on now.
Back on page 1 it was said that the shop cleaned and re-assembled the engine for the 2nd go-around. But you just don't know if they did a good job of it. I'd assume at this point that they did not. #8 exhaust lifter is the first lifter that the oil reaches after leaving the pump and filter. This MIGHT make it a bit more likely to catch debris as it comes into the oil gallery; or maybe when the engine is off, any debris in that gallery settles into the back end near the #8 exhaust lifter.
I'd be pulling the oil filter first and cutting it open for examination for debris. BTW, don't use the so-called race filters... they have a much more 'open' media that passes lots bigger particles.