Left turn signal better than right

My left turn signal always works better than the right. Even at stop idle my left signal keeps flashing. My right signal stops flashing at idle. Both work at highway speed for lane change and full turn action. The alternator is new (100Amp). I always drive with my headlights on. I get a negative Ammeter reading at idle at stop, but engine is idling fine. Wiring harness was completely checked with recent restoration. Voltage regulator does not look OE.

1973 Duster, 225 slant, a/c,

Where should I look first?

Turn signal switch?
System voltage?
Ground?

Could be a relay.

When I have customers come in with issues like that I usually find a mismatched bulb somewhere. like a 2057 bulb where a 1157 belongs. just a thought.

The solder-blobs on the base of 1157s sometimes simply get dimples from the compression of the button contacts.
Sometimes you can give them a dressing with the edge of a screwdriver.
You can get out the soldering pencil and build it back up.
You can simply put in a new bulb.
See if the brass buttons in the socket are still shiny....
Maybe the socket has poor grounding.

Mine wasn't doing it that badly. Poor connections with more than normal voltage drop can cause that too...


But I just put in a digital flasher anyways so no more slow down at idle. Oh and now I can use LED bulbs too.

cdnEHbody said:

Mine wasn't doing it that badly. Poor connections with more than normal voltage drop can cause that too...


But I just put in a digital flasher anyways so no more slow down at idle. Oh and now I can use LED bulbs too.

Click to expand...

Exactly what I was going to suggest, as the digital flashers don't slow down at idle and don't use a load to flash so they can run LED's.
They are an electronically timed on/off switch instead of a heated bi metal element.

When you say digital, is that the same as the "electro-mechanical" I'm finding? It says they're not thermal flashes and are compatible with LEDs, so it sounds the same to me.

phaelax said:

When you say digital, is that the same as the "electro-mechanical" I'm finding? It says they're not thermal flashes and are compatible with LEDs, so it sounds the same to me.

Click to expand...

I got a bit confused about that when I swapped mine but "electro mechanical" is what they must be, because they have an audible click when flashing just like the OE type.

Our harbour freight equivalent has them for like 12 bucks too. Doesn't get any easier than that.

$7 at AutoZone, I'm about to go buy one.

I've seen ammeter needle twitch with signal operation too which shouldn't occur, even with a much lower output alternator. The negative ammeter reading at idle suggests the entire system is suffering from low voltage at idle.
A different signal flasher might cure the 1 slower signal issue. There is still a fault somewhere. System voltage (+) and grounds (-) are not 2 different things either. Think circle. A fault in any part of that circle yields about the same result.
So the common culprits, bulkhead connections, ammeter connections, are always suspect.
In a 73 model , 2 white plastic harness connectors are also suspect, 1 in the engine bay, 1 under the steering column, all on the (+) side of the circle. Chassis ground path is what it is. Clean tight connections throughout and sometimes supplemented with a actual wire where needed.

Thanks all. Sounds like a cheap way for me to start to understand more about my electricals.

Dennis

I still get twitchy ammeter....all connections were cleaned well....and clean to start with as this was low mile granny car. I use a relay from the battery where the regulator gets its + battery from. Car charges good. Just twitchy under light load. Light twitch...and no swings into the negative or anything. Wonder if my hei is causing it. Ammeter connections were clean and tight. No burnt or crusty connections. So far a year of driving like that and no problems so I just left it alone.

cdnEHbody said:

I still get twitchy ammeter....all connections were cleaned well....and clean to start with as this was low mile granny car. I use a relay from the battery where the regulator gets its + battery from. Car charges good. Just twitchy under light load. Light twitch...and no swings into the negative or anything. Wonder if my hei is causing it. Ammeter connections were clean and tight. No burnt or crusty connections. So far a year of driving like that and no problems so I just left it alone.

Click to expand...

The HEI works electrically almost exactly the same as any other coil type system.

I think when we lighten the loads with relays on the OE wiring we cause this to happen.
(so light of a load the regulator flips out)
Did you know the headlights run through about 20 feet of wire and two switches?
So when for example we use relays for those the OE wiring has WAY less amp loads to deal with so the regulator isn't quite sure what to do. (my theory anyway) after watching craploads of people trying to solve it and not.
Some solutions work for some people and not others.

I left mine as well.
It doesn't hurt anything just a slight annoyance, so screw it.

TrailBeast said:

I think when we lighten the loads with relays on the OE wiring we cause this to happen.
(so light of a load the regulator flips out)
Did you know the headlights run through about 20 feet of wire and two switches?
So when for example we use relays for those the OE wiring has WAY less amp loads to deal with so the regulator isn't quite sure what to do. (my theory anyway) after watching craploads of people trying to solve it and not.
Some solutions work for some people and not others.

I left mine as well.
It doesn't hurt anything just a slight annoyance, so screw it.

Click to expand...

This is very interesting. Relays were put in my headlight wiring. So I could maybe just 'fugget about it?', once I check the bulbs, and grounds?

Dennis

kelleherdl said:

This is very interesting. Relays were put in my headlight wiring. So I could maybe just 'fugget about it?', once I check the bulbs, and grounds?

Dennis

Click to expand...

I see Kit disagreed with me but I have watched people chase that twitch in the needle for weeks/months and none of the solutions fixed that specific problem. (some did fix it)
The problem I see is that no one solution worked for everyone including myself.
It started on my own car right after the headlight relays went in. (The HEI made no difference)

On the "one light flashing better" problem you should obviously check all your sockets and bulbs, but I was just trying to warn that you may not ever find the solution to the twitchy gauge.
But then you might also.

On the lights issue.
On these old girls the bulb socket can start to or completely loose their ground from the light housing where they are molded to each other.
If you look close around the bulb you can see where the two metals come together, where the bulb socket itself meets the pot metal of the light housing.
Corrosion between the two metals can make them loose contact with each other.

When checking those socket grounds I find it a good idea to take a jumper wire and ground it to the body or bumper and while the tail and turns are on, touch that metal right around the bulb with it.
If it's a ground issue the bulbs will start working like they should and probably even brighten up.
Some drill the housing right where the two metals come together (the bulb socket and light housing) and put a small screw in it to make the contact between them better.

This is just one possibility when chasing ground issue's at the rear lights.

This thread is a bit confusing because while the original post is about the right turn signal dimmer than left, then jumps to relays on turn signal circuit that does exist, then shifts to flicker on headlights and relation to HEI. I will try to clarify each to the best of my ability.

About dim turn signal on right side. A single flasher circuit is shared for right and left, but bulb load current changes blink rate. Poor contact at socket ground to body is typically #1, followed by corrosion in socket, bad bulb, or bulb improperly inserted. Bulbs two locating pins, one closer to end. The bulbs often have two filaments, one dimmer for running and a brighter for stop/brake. I have worked enough older cars, to find often bulbs are inserted wrong. I have also see filanents drop, joing the circuits, or bulbs become dim as the filament shiny plates the inside of bulb at end of life.

Adding relays to fix the turn signal, that is silly, and there much more to it than saying that is a fix.

Flicker after HEI, headlight relay, MAD bypass? There are a few things that can happen, but it does not have to be a mystery, there are multi-meters and scopes to accurately diagnose the problem. The flicker will have a signature (voltage and current waveform) that can be matched to electrical load. An example of a noisy electrical load is HEI power on a circuit that is shared with the reference point "I" of voltage regulator. At low engine speed the HEI coil charge current is extended, to insure as engine speed varies, there is sufficient charge to fire ignition. As engine speed increases, the dwell extension ends, and flicker may decrease. The regulator responds to "IGN1" changes, and controls the field to make the alternator increase output to stabilize load it can be out of sync with peak transients. Any voltage drop between alternator output, filtered by battery and "IGN1" circuit that is used by regulator to sense and control voltage, results is voltage peaking above normal at alternator and battery. A use of meter on AC and DC setting can view the voltage drops, and wiring integrity improved to reduce drops, and a relay, properly employed is a solution too.
The MAD bypass where the alternator post is connected to the large alternator stud, leads to flicker. The alternator output has ripple, because an alternator output is a rectified 3 phase AC, resulting in pulsating DC. The post of starter relay has ripple, and that point via bulkhead connector and ignition switch feeds "IGN1", then add noisy HEI load, and the regulator does a poor job at low RPM. The alternator stud could be bypassed to battery, and protected with fuse of fusible link, reducing ripple, because the battery serves as a filter.
I have more to say but have to run...

KitCarlson said:

Adding relays to fix the turn signal, that is silly, and there much more to it than saying that is a fix.

Click to expand...

Did I miss something?
I can't find where that was suggested.

I gotta run here in a bit also.

TrailBeast said:

Did I miss something?
I can't find where that was suggested.

I gotta run here in a bit also.

Click to expand...

I think I infered that from post #14, but I am not good using words, so I am likely wrong.
Actually I disagreed, just to tease you. I am a curious person, and get to the root cause, fix things better than new when I can. You are able to dismiss problems that seem minor to you. I can't, in my world of designing stuff, letting high ripple go, means a future found on road dead issue. I could explain more about that, but nobody cares, easier for most, change parts, blame the Chineese.

Do not get me wrong, I like you and your ability to be a risk taker, they often say that is a good trait as a business person.

KitCarlson said:

I think I infered that from post #14, but I am not good using words, so I am likely wrong.
Actually I disagreed, just to tease you. I am a curious person, and get to the root cause, fix things better than new when I can. You are able to dismiss problems that seem minor to you. I can't, in my world of designing stuff, letting high ripple go, means a future found on road dead issue. I could explain more about that, but nobody cares, easier for most, change parts, blame the Chineese.

Do not get me wrong, I like you and your ability to be a risk taker, they often say that is a good trait as a business person.

Click to expand...

I don't think a little "ripple" was anything they ever considered in 1970's Mopars.
My car has pretty much always done it since I first got it 4 or so years ago and it's been all over the place and frequently 1000's of miles at a time, so if it's going to be FORD it'd better hurry up and do it.
BTW, brown nosing doesn't make up for Kit disagreeing with me.

It helps a little though.

Now I tease you.

Ok, back on topic of original post . I just remembered... we replaced the sockets with 'new' ones (generic common part). I think one was actually broken (brittle). and that would b the right one. I am willing to accept that I may have a bad socket. Which I guess could be responsible for all the connection thoughts.

Is there any value in trying to find genuine Mopar socket from the 70's. I am willing to pay reasonably if that would be the best option.

Dennis

I think NAPA carries sockets, or you might find used ones in good condition. I am only familiar with 1966 cars, at that time the cast housings had sockets with fingers that snapped in, and the pot metal housings, mounted and sealed to body. Both could result in grounding problems, because mopar did not have ground wire at sockets. I am not sure how 1973 sockets and housings may have changed.

There is a coil spring, it pushes contacts to bulb contacts, it rusts and looses tension on salt belt cars. The socket metal corrodes the plating, and contact the alignment pins is where ground connects at bulb, then socket to housing, housing to body.

kelleherdl said:

Ok, back on topic of original post . I just remembered... we replaced the sockets with 'new' ones (generic common part). I think one was actually broken (brittle). and that would b the right one. I am willing to accept that I may have a bad socket. Which I guess could be responsible for all the connection thoughts.

Is there any value in trying to find genuine Mopar socket from the 70's. I am willing to pay reasonably if that would be the best option.

Dennis

Click to expand...

It's not necessarily a bad socket, but you might as well start at one end of the problem and work to the other till you find the problem.
It can get messy and expensive to start somewhere in the middle of the possibilities.
As far as OEM or aftermarket goes you could very well have the same problem with an old one or a new one, so fixing the ones you have might be a best option if it's possible.
With bulb sockets if I have one that the springs are trashed in or a broken pad I buy a new socket and use the contact pad and springs out of it and use the OE socket.

To Kit:
I know it's supposed to be bad ju ju to say things like "reliable" but this car and I have a relationship like a rancher and his favorite horse.
We came to understandings early on that I would buy it presents all the time and it would run all the time.
So far we have both kept up our ends of the deal.
(Seriously though, I can fix anything that it can break)