Need some advice on choosing an engine

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rumblefish360 said:
@273 How does the 360 give up cfm in breathing room?
By what is the bassis for the 360 giving up a few foot pounds of torque? In what form vs. what other block?
Click to expand...

My point veiw is from if you run the same stroke in each of these engines then it just comes down to bore size. And in the case of the small blocks all 3 of them would be within 20 or so cid from each other and 360 would be the middle one in size. And same can be said of the 383/440/400 with the same stroke they will be all within 20 cid of each other. The differences in the final builds would be small from one another especially in a street engine.

But one difference when talking big blocks is deck height 383/400 better suited for 480 ish cid and smaller and 440 for larger than 480 or so cid.
 
Gotcha!!!!! Well said. A few cfm or a few cubes.
 
Garry in AZ said:
Talk about great feedback... Thanks to everyone!
I definitely have some decisions to make. One thing I have decided, is I will most likely be buying a crate motor instead of building it myself, primarily because of cost and my lack of experience with building MOPAR engines. If it was a SBC or LS, I'd likely build it myself, but not if I go the stroked 400 or similar route. I'd like to end up with somewhere between 600 and 700 horsepower at the rear wheels. Assuming I can keep the cars weight under 3000 lbs, that should get me well into the 10's which is fast enough for me. I have heard about the intense care and feeding a 9 second street car requires, and I'm not ready for that.

Thanks again to everyone for the great advice and sharing your wisdom with a guy just getting back into MOPARs.

Garry
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600-700 horsepower to the rear wheels? That is a fairly stout normally aspirated engine. Here is our single Dominator 500"/440 at 696 HP.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KIo9QAGjFVs3IAOsksnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=laroy+engines&vid=36150a004689b598f6228ef2e2b0ac8a&l=00:40&turl=http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=WN.%2flbK%2baG13uNAqK%2b6M0lUzw&pid=15.1&rurl=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbZ8jGq6x1c&tit=Jim+LaRoy+Pulls+696.48+horsepower&c=0&sigr=11bh82i34&sigt=111jb4obj&sigi=1258mchok&age=1221936213&fr2=p:s,v:v&fr=yhs-mozilla-003&hsimp=yhs-003&hspart=mozilla&tt=b
 
Here is a low deck 470 that makes 750 hp on pump gas. The cam probably won't live very long on the street but you gotta do what you gotta do to make the power.

Dyno Day: Trick Flow 270 Mopar Heads - Hot Rod Network

And here is a similar low deck pump gas 470 going into an A body car. This one makes 700 hp with the smaller Trick Flow 240 heads.

DSC_0954 (Large).JPG
 
If you are shooting for those power numbers then see my thread about hp limits on small blocks.
 
Garry in AZ said:
Talk about great feedback... Thanks to everyone!
I definitely have some decisions to make. One thing I have decided, is I will most likely be buying a crate motor instead of building it myself, primarily because of cost and my lack of experience with building MOPAR engines. If it was a SBC or LS, I'd likely build it myself, but not if I go the stroked 400 or similar route. I'd like to end up with somewhere between 600 and 700 horsepower at the rear wheels. Assuming I can keep the cars weight under 3000 lbs, that should get me well into the 10's which is fast enough for me. I have heard about the intense care and feeding a 9 second street car requires, and I'm not ready for that.

Thanks again to everyone for the great advice and sharing your wisdom with a guy just getting back into MOPARs.

Garry
Click to expand...

FYI - "Crate Motors" built for OEMs to resell are done on the cheap. If you want a reliable "crate motor" go to one of the premier Mopar engine builders and I don't mean Jasper or Hughes. Do your homework before making any decisions on an engine builder.
 
Thanks sscuda... sage advice. I have some history with Ray Barton. If I buy a "crate" motor it will likely come from him.
 
Yes, I have read that information carefully, I have a lot to learn, thanks! I also bought Andy's book Max Performance MOPAR big Blocks. Good stuff!
 
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Garry in AZ said:
Okay, I am just in the planning stages of this build, so nothing is etched in stone. Here's what I think I'm going to do, and I'm looking for opinions, suggestions and instruction from those who have already been to the movie. Might as well learn from the experts, right?

This will be my first MOPAR build in over 20 years. The car is a 1967 Valiant 100 two-door post. It's an Arizona car, fairly straight and rust free. Currently has a slant six and somebody's four speed. (Was a column shift car) I want to build a fun street/strip car that has a lot of torque, and will run in the 10's. The car won't see more than 1000 miles a year, but could be taken to the dragstrip and bracket raced fairly regularly. Consistent performance is important. No plans to drive the car anywhere other than the track and local car shows.

My initial plans are:
Completely strip the chassis of all the OEM running gear and suspension.
Install new AlterKtion front end, with coil-overs, rack and pinion box, Wilwood brakes, eliminate the torsion bars.
The rear suspension will be a Reilly Motorsports four-link coil-over setup with a narrowed Dana 60 or 9" and disc brakes.
Weld in frame connectors and torque boxes.
Mini tubs.
29.5x15 rear tire
4:10 gear
Automatic trans with transbrake. (suggestions welcome. 904, 727, or ??)
Line Loc.
Now here is the part I can't decide on... what motor?
Budget for the motor and trans is around 15 grand. Would love a 6-71 sticking out of the hood, but not sure I can afford it. So....
440?
Stroked 360 (408) ?
Gen 3 Hemi?
Max Wedge?
Looking for 500+ ft.lbs torque and lots of low RPM grunt so not too keen on a small block, but willing to listen to the experts.

Whaddya think?

Garry
Click to expand...


I'd build a 4" stroke small block, lighter, smaller externally , and that's more room under the hood. 550 - 600 hp all day
 
Garry in AZ said:
I'd like to end up with somewhere between 600 and 700 horsepower at the rear wheels. Assuming I can keep the cars weight under 3000 lbs, that should get me well into the 10's which is fast enough for me. I have heard about the intense care and feeding a 9 second street car requires, and I'm not ready for that.

Thanks again to everyone for the great advice and sharing your wisdom with a guy just getting back into MOPARs.

Garry
Click to expand...

A 10.0 car weighing 3000lbs all in and a good chassis which I'm sure you'll have by the sound of things will only need 630ish flywheel hp which in effect will be around 600 with anciliaries. a mere 550fwhp is low 10's, that can easily be done with a SB stroker and still be relatively mild, no need for BB., a 550hp SB crate motor, can be had at INDY CYLINDER 4th motor down for 10.40's or for a bit more but a lot more $$$$, the 5th 1 down for 9.90's.....nothing wrong with a low deck INDY CYLINDER no.1....just a few insights.

have fun>>
 
Thanks to everyone for the insight, suggestions and great advice. This is one of the best forums I have ever been a part of.
I have made a decision on the engine for the Valiant. I gave the whole issue careful consideration, and I did a ton of research. I talked to several engine builders and got up to date pricing, and discussed the expected performance. Everyone has been very helpful, and I have learned a bunch. Thanks to you all for that.
This won't likely be a popular decision, but at the end of the day it's my car and my money, and I'm not building it to sell, or to make someone else happy. I am going to go with a stroked LS3. (416)
Again, thanks to everyone, and I hope y'all will still talk to me. LOL!

Garry
 
Garry in AZ said:
Thanks to everyone for the insight, suggestions and great advice. This is one of the best forums I have ever been a part of.
I have made a decision on the engine for the Valiant. I gave the whole issue careful consideration, and I did a ton of research. I talked to several engine builders and got up to date pricing, and discussed the expected performance. Everyone has been very helpful, and I have learned a bunch. Thanks to you all for that.
This won't likely be a popular decision, but at the end of the day it's my car and my money, and I'm not building it to sell, or to make someone else happy. I am going to go with a stroked LS3. (416)
Again, thanks to everyone, and I hope y'all will still talk to me. LOL!

Garry
Click to expand...
You are absolutely right. Your car, your money! Have fun!:thumbsup:
 
Garry in AZ said:
Okay, I am just in the planning stages of this build, so nothing is etched in stone. Here's what I think I'm going to do, and I'm looking for opinions, suggestions and instruction from those who have already been to the movie. Might as well learn from the experts, right?

This will be my first MOPAR build in over 20 years. The car is a 1967 Valiant 100 two-door post. It's an Arizona car, fairly straight and rust free. Currently has a slant six and somebody's four speed. (Was a column shift car) I want to build a fun street/strip car that has a lot of torque, and will run in the 10's. The car won't see more than 1000 miles a year, but could be taken to the dragstrip and bracket raced fairly regularly. Consistent performance is important. No plans to drive the car anywhere other than the track and local car shows.

My initial plans are:
Completely strip the chassis of all the OEM running gear and suspension.
Install new AlterKtion front end, with coil-overs, rack and pinion box, Wilwood brakes, eliminate the torsion bars.
The rear suspension will be a Reilly Motorsports four-link coil-over setup with a narrowed Dana 60 or 9" and disc brakes.
Weld in frame connectors and torque boxes.
Mini tubs.
29.5x15 rear tire
4:10 gear
Automatic trans with transbrake. (suggestions welcome. 904, 727, or ??)
Line Loc.
Now here is the part I can't decide on... what motor?
Budget for the motor and trans is around 15 grand. Would love a 6-71 sticking out of the hood, but not sure I can afford it. So....
440?
Stroked 360 (408) ?
Gen 3 Hemi?
Max Wedge?
Looking for 500+ ft.lbs torque and lots of low RPM grunt so not too keen on a small block, but willing to listen to the experts.

Whaddya think?

Garry
Click to expand...

Why even spend the money on the alterkation if you are only driving to and from the track? Skip that, and you could afford the 6-71 you mentioned.

There are plenty of big blocks floating around. If you really want to go the 6-71, why not look into what that could give you on a 318? Use a lower compression 318, throw on some 360 heads and you should have some decently LOW compression that your supercharger will just drop right on. ;)

Will you NEED the Dana 60? Could you get away with a Ford 8.8 outta some junkyard? There's another huge chunk of change saved.

Just some random thoughts. :)
 
Garry in AZ said:
This won't likely be a popular decision, but at the end of the day it's my car and my money, and I'm not building it to sell, or to make someone else happy. I am going to go with a stroked LS3. (416)
Click to expand...
Don't lose any sleep over it, no Mopar engine could meet my goals either. More and more non-Mopar engine swap are happening every day. The purists will always be pissed and not realize that Mopars are in the same category as Hudson, Studebaker, and Packard. Mighty Mopar hasn't been even remotely relevant in 40yrs.
 
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