In my last thread I went into detail with multiple people on the prices, problems and other negatives to a 440 swap. but with this thread I would appreciate the help of someone who's done the swap before. i would like to know what engine mounts i should buy, and other items that are needed in the swap. if someone could build me a list of what they replaced on there cuda to do this swap it would be greatly appreciated. need to know what parts, from were, and how much i should spend on them. want to know what in getting into a little better. also if anyone could do a phone call that would also be appreciated, as im very dyslexic . thanks to everyone who's helped me so far!
1967 cuda 273-440 swap details.
- Thread starter TheCudaKid
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junkyardhero
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it would be near impossible to sit down and write an entire list of everything that you need, where to get it and what you should spend. i'll do my best to help you out, but some stuff you're just going to need to either figure out or do a bunch of research on-- which you already are, and is great. but you'll need way more. start here: Big Block Dart Forums
1. buying: there are tons of resources: ebay, c'list, offer up, swapmeets, classifieds on forums, online retailers (popular ones for this type of swap would be mancini racing, brewers and schumaker-- i link them here in the post)
2. pricing: because you're trying to flip this, price is critical but unfortunately there are some aspects of this swap and critical components that are just flat *** expensive. it's either by nature, because they're rare or no longer produced, or they're specialty items.
obviously obtaining used items is going to save you money, but there are some things you should buy new, like maybe a radiator or a clutch; but there are other things that you absolutely don't need to seek out and pay top dollar for as if you're undertaking a restoration. for example, you don't need a numbers matching transmission or a date coded bellhousing. this isn't that type of car.
so here's a quick and dirty rundown of the big pieces of the puzzle. this represents a slap dash search of just what it would take to get the project underway. i'm not including a link for a motor here. and again, this is just representative of what it takes to start pulling the project together. obviously, you can shop around for better pricing i'm just trying to give you a general idea here.
this is not the exact 4spd you would want-- it's the early type with a ball & trunion type output and not the slip yoke, and while it would work, it's not ideal. but the price is about what i would expect to pay for a later (67+) complete A body 4spd with a shifter.
here's the 4spd hump you'll need for the floor:
www.brewersperformance.com
here's a bell housing:
bell dust cover:
www.brewersperformance.com
you'll need the Z-bar w/ ball studs and brackets:
www.brewersperformance.com
and clutch rod and clutch fork:
www.brewersperformance.com
www.brewersperformance.com
here's the swing pedals:
www.brewersperformance.com
gonna need a flywheel and clutch:
www.brewersperformance.com
www.brewersperformance.com
let's keep it cool with this radiator and fan combo:
so, there's the big kind of overall picture of where you'd be headed. obviously you can save money on used parts and not go ultra high dollar with stuff like the radiator and maybe just do a stock clutch kit from rock auto. but you're not going to cut that number in half.
i don't know what you have out back rear end wise or what you've got for a driveshaft. so i'll just say thow $450 in the budget for a custom built driveshaft. if you need a rearend, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.
you'll need an oil pan specifically for an a-body application. so keep that in mind.
power steering and power brakes are another area of concern. depending on the motor selected and the type of headers they may or may not fit, and if they do fit, there might be some tricky or expensive supporting harware and brackets. the same goes for heating and AC, it may come down to an expensive aftermarket solution or an equally expensive stock solution that you have to hunt down pieces for.
besides cutting the floor for the 4spd hump, the only other thing i can think of "fabrication wise" is you may need to grind some clearance on the k-memeber for motor fitment. expect to wrestle with the headers and maybe clearance them as well. you'll need to extend the wires for the distributor and coil.
anyway, that's the jist of it. hope that helps set you along the way!
1. buying: there are tons of resources: ebay, c'list, offer up, swapmeets, classifieds on forums, online retailers (popular ones for this type of swap would be mancini racing, brewers and schumaker-- i link them here in the post)
2. pricing: because you're trying to flip this, price is critical but unfortunately there are some aspects of this swap and critical components that are just flat *** expensive. it's either by nature, because they're rare or no longer produced, or they're specialty items.
obviously obtaining used items is going to save you money, but there are some things you should buy new, like maybe a radiator or a clutch; but there are other things that you absolutely don't need to seek out and pay top dollar for as if you're undertaking a restoration. for example, you don't need a numbers matching transmission or a date coded bellhousing. this isn't that type of car.
so here's a quick and dirty rundown of the big pieces of the puzzle. this represents a slap dash search of just what it would take to get the project underway. i'm not including a link for a motor here. and again, this is just representative of what it takes to start pulling the project together. obviously, you can shop around for better pricing i'm just trying to give you a general idea here.
'67-72 A-Body V8 K-Member to Big Block Kit
This kit eliminates the need for K-member removal and makes the job of installing a Big Block 383, 400 or 440 engine both easy and cost-efficient. Installs a Big Block on your V8 K-member, with or without power steering. Kit includes coated brackets, factory-style insulators, grade 8 hardware...
www.engine-swaps.com
Shim Pack
Small position adjustments for header clearance are easy with this kit designed for all biscuit mounting systems. Contains 8 plated, steel shims, 2 of each: 1/16", 1/8", 3/16", 1/4". For B/RB and small block engines. Made in the USA!
www.engine-swaps.com
Big Block Mopar Tri-Y Under Chassis Headers
Our Big Block Mopar Tri-Y headers give you high-flow header performance and a custom fit that means you don't have to sacrifice your power steering. Fits all Big Block engines - 361, 383, 400, 413, 426 Wedge, and 440. Also fits great with most aftermarket aluminum heads with angled plugs...
www.engine-swaps.com
B/RB Header Stud Package
3/8 Stud, nut, and washer kit to aid in installation of our Big Block Tri-Y Headers. Install as per factory manual.
www.engine-swaps.com
Mini Starter
Great replacement to the stock gear reduction starter. Works great with our Tri-Y Big and Small block headers. Due too casting variances, it is recommended to test fit the starter prior to final installation. In some instances there is excess casting that will need to be ground down for proper...
www.engine-swaps.com
'66-72 B-Body, '70-74 E-Body, '67+ A-Body Torque Strap
Throw away your chains and broken motor mounts; our new torque strap can handle all the upgraded power and excess vibration your Small or Big Block can dish out. Mounts in existing sway bar location - Possible drilling required. Kit includes coated brackets, polyurethane isolators, high...
www.engine-swaps.com
Mopar 1964/1965 A Body A 833 4 Speed Transmission with Hurst shifter and linkage | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Mopar 1964/1965 A Body A 833 4 Speed Transmission with Hurst shifter and linkage at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
here's the 4spd hump you'll need for the floor:
Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists
here's a bell housing:
mopar #2468372 big block a body 67 68 69 and 10.5" 4 speed bell housing 66 67 B | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for mopar #2468372 big block a body 67 68 69 and 10.5" 4 speed bell housing 66 67 B at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
bell dust cover:
Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists
you'll need the Z-bar w/ ball studs and brackets:
Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists
and clutch rod and clutch fork:
Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists
Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists
here's the swing pedals:
Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists
gonna need a flywheel and clutch:
Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists
Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists
let's keep it cool with this radiator and fan combo:
so, there's the big kind of overall picture of where you'd be headed. obviously you can save money on used parts and not go ultra high dollar with stuff like the radiator and maybe just do a stock clutch kit from rock auto. but you're not going to cut that number in half.
i don't know what you have out back rear end wise or what you've got for a driveshaft. so i'll just say thow $450 in the budget for a custom built driveshaft. if you need a rearend, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.
you'll need an oil pan specifically for an a-body application. so keep that in mind.
power steering and power brakes are another area of concern. depending on the motor selected and the type of headers they may or may not fit, and if they do fit, there might be some tricky or expensive supporting harware and brackets. the same goes for heating and AC, it may come down to an expensive aftermarket solution or an equally expensive stock solution that you have to hunt down pieces for.
besides cutting the floor for the 4spd hump, the only other thing i can think of "fabrication wise" is you may need to grind some clearance on the k-memeber for motor fitment. expect to wrestle with the headers and maybe clearance them as well. you'll need to extend the wires for the distributor and coil.
anyway, that's the jist of it. hope that helps set you along the way!
Junkyard hero put together a solid list but if your going to do this and purchase all these item new its going to get pretty costly. I did the swap in a 67 Dart GT, It a convertible with factory air, PS, PB and while some may ask why I put all that stuff back in when I installed the 440- see pic. I did the swap using Schumacher's engine mounts and headers modified for a 4 spd by Accurate Exhaust. Most everything else I used came as used parts. You don't mention in your post if its a 4 spd. car or automatic you want to build? Automatics are a bit simpler but I enjoy the 4 speed myself even though the clutch linkage can be a challenge, in the end I ended up with a hydraulic clutch setup. Its going to be tight in the engine bay and a lot of guys leave out the heater because it may interfere with the passenger side valve cover - I included a heater but had to stick with the stock valve covers because the fancy Aluminum covers were to bulky. I also was able to use the stock starter with the Shumaker headers and while a tight fit I can still remove it without taking off the headers. Make sure you get the tie down on the drivers side - Its in the list above. Regards cooling I used an aluminum radiator and later swapped out for a stock radiator for 383 with good results (Glen Ray Radiators - guy knows a ton). I Purchased my exhaust from Accurate LTD - just tell them what your doing and they'll get you the right stuff. Finally my Dart is a convertible and with the 440 I had to stiffen the frame up, depending HP and torque you may want to consider adding some frame stiffeners to you car. Cheap insurance.
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
You can also use the TransDapt engine brackets and save a few bucks over the Schumachers, I have used them in the past with good success. Some have had issues with them, but some have had issues with the Schumachers too. Your call.
Hedman Performance Group
Hedman Performance Group
Scody21
Just send it
put it on paper before you start. That list @junkyardhero is close to 10k.
We were not saying don’t do it. Just be realistic in how deep of a project and how much money you spend, if your trying to flip, cus your lose money. You should also look at legendary interior, cus that gets pricy fast.
Parts sources
Yearone
Rockauto
Mrmoparts
Mancini
Fakebook
Half the fun with building these cars is the hunt for parts…
We were not saying don’t do it. Just be realistic in how deep of a project and how much money you spend, if your trying to flip, cus your lose money. You should also look at legendary interior, cus that gets pricy fast.
Parts sources
Yearone
Rockauto
Mrmoparts
Mancini
Fakebook
Half the fun with building these cars is the hunt for parts…
I did the swap in my 71 Duster, so same K member as you. Junkyardhero list is excellent.
Schumacher mounts. I would avoid the transdap, lazy copy, they did not even machine the drivers side biscuit. Only reason I used it is because the Schumacher company had not been saved yet when I bought my stuff. Schumacher are such amazing stand up people he sent me HIS instruction sheet for the COPY product! Amazing people.
I installed my engine twice, first stabbed both together, and could never get it right in the center. Engine had a noise so pulled just engine and re installed. Went in perfectly. The biscuits are sideways on a big block swap and acted like sliders which allowed perfect placement and a slam 'er in approach. I did not need to use the shims at all.
Schumacher Tri Y headers. TTI are a better option, Pro Parts are too if all out performance is the goal. Not a fan of the TTI and how tight it all sounds, and pro parts means cutting stuff up. Schumacher are easy to install, very easy to change plugs in car, etc.
Big block trans, ran it last summer with 727, in process of A833 swap. Going with hydraulic to avoid clearance issues etc. Swapping from auto to 4 speed is the identical process whether running small block or big block, with the exception of what bell you need
Allstar big block mopar rad, but GM style crossflow with mopar inlet/outlet. Keeps it very cool and easy install
Torque strap. Needed in my opinion.... heres why;
Cutting the K frame. You have to cut a relief area near the drivers side motor mount pad on the K member to clear the oil pump. Engine will not install without doing that. Another reason to go with Schumacher as they have that in their instructions, transdap does not. The area is pretty thin and most likely weak, so a torque strap is cheap insurance and it looks cool
Brakes. Bought the booster/master combo from right stuff, easily clears the 440 and now I have excellent power brakes. Pic below
Heater motor. Some guys have found a way to use a shorter motor, I just bought the plate from mancini to block it off as my entire unit was not in the car anyway.
That is my swap in a nutshell. I took forever doing mine as I was learning and collecting parts, but it is rather easy to do even by yourself. I had the engine out in less than two hours on my own, and similar time getting it back in and running after I fixed it
anyway, here is the brake system I used
Schumacher mounts. I would avoid the transdap, lazy copy, they did not even machine the drivers side biscuit. Only reason I used it is because the Schumacher company had not been saved yet when I bought my stuff. Schumacher are such amazing stand up people he sent me HIS instruction sheet for the COPY product! Amazing people.
I installed my engine twice, first stabbed both together, and could never get it right in the center. Engine had a noise so pulled just engine and re installed. Went in perfectly. The biscuits are sideways on a big block swap and acted like sliders which allowed perfect placement and a slam 'er in approach. I did not need to use the shims at all.
Schumacher Tri Y headers. TTI are a better option, Pro Parts are too if all out performance is the goal. Not a fan of the TTI and how tight it all sounds, and pro parts means cutting stuff up. Schumacher are easy to install, very easy to change plugs in car, etc.
Big block trans, ran it last summer with 727, in process of A833 swap. Going with hydraulic to avoid clearance issues etc. Swapping from auto to 4 speed is the identical process whether running small block or big block, with the exception of what bell you need
Allstar big block mopar rad, but GM style crossflow with mopar inlet/outlet. Keeps it very cool and easy install
Torque strap. Needed in my opinion.... heres why;
Cutting the K frame. You have to cut a relief area near the drivers side motor mount pad on the K member to clear the oil pump. Engine will not install without doing that. Another reason to go with Schumacher as they have that in their instructions, transdap does not. The area is pretty thin and most likely weak, so a torque strap is cheap insurance and it looks cool
Brakes. Bought the booster/master combo from right stuff, easily clears the 440 and now I have excellent power brakes. Pic below
Heater motor. Some guys have found a way to use a shorter motor, I just bought the plate from mancini to block it off as my entire unit was not in the car anyway.
That is my swap in a nutshell. I took forever doing mine as I was learning and collecting parts, but it is rather easy to do even by yourself. I had the engine out in less than two hours on my own, and similar time getting it back in and running after I fixed it
anyway, here is the brake system I used
I agree that this is not a cheap transformation. It really depends on what you have to start with and what you have to add. I started with a 4 spd car with 8 3/4 rear. If you have to get and rebuild and engine that alone is $5K and if you need other parts you can consider the project to run between $5k - $15/$20K. On top of that you have to consider the shape of your car, is body work and interior complete and good or is that part of the project as well? If your flipping you need to be careful because nobody is paying big bucks for a "Project", unfinished cars attract bargain hunters to pay you pennies on the dollar. Want to play with old cars - bring a thick wallet 
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
Actually, it's the other way around. TransDapt has been making these adapters since the late 70's, give or take. All the biscuit cut takes is 5 minutes with a hacksaw, not worth double the price and on-again off-again availability, JMO.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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And then you have to deal with;
the suspension,
..the steering,
...the brakes,
....wheels and tires,
.....a rotten fuel supply system,
......a 57 yo electrical system,
.......and leaking windows.
And you keep smelling this funny odor coming up from under the dash, and, simultaneously, the old girl keeps blowing the main fusible link. So you get tired of that and just wire up a 100Amp Maxi-fuse, and the next morning you get up to find that overnight, your car erupted in flames, and burned itself and the shop down to the foundation.
Oh, and the first time you really hit the gas, your 57 yo A-body comes home looking a lil saggy on one side.
Hopefully,
.the rear shackles ain't tore off,
..the springs ain't bent
...the U-joints are still there,
....the fender aprons are still all welded in place
.....the T-bar anchors are intact,
......the UCAs are secure in their saddles, and
........the rockers are both still intact.
Better check your quarters for wrinkles.
I'm just beatin' up on you cuz I'm trynta figure out where a 17 yo kid comes up with a wheelbarrow full of cash, that took me a lifetime to work towards, and still don't have ...
the suspension,
..the steering,
...the brakes,
....wheels and tires,
.....a rotten fuel supply system,
......a 57 yo electrical system,
.......and leaking windows.
And you keep smelling this funny odor coming up from under the dash, and, simultaneously, the old girl keeps blowing the main fusible link. So you get tired of that and just wire up a 100Amp Maxi-fuse, and the next morning you get up to find that overnight, your car erupted in flames, and burned itself and the shop down to the foundation.
Oh, and the first time you really hit the gas, your 57 yo A-body comes home looking a lil saggy on one side.
Hopefully,
.the rear shackles ain't tore off,
..the springs ain't bent
...the U-joints are still there,
....the fender aprons are still all welded in place
.....the T-bar anchors are intact,
......the UCAs are secure in their saddles, and
........the rockers are both still intact.
Better check your quarters for wrinkles.
I'm just beatin' up on you cuz I'm trynta figure out where a 17 yo kid comes up with a wheelbarrow full of cash, that took me a lifetime to work towards, and still don't have ...
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
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One red paperclip - Wikipedia
or youtube. or twitch. or he busted his *** since he was 14 picking cotton and bailing hay, bought a used S10 or ranger that's his daily. he's 17 so he hasn't succumbed to the siren song of wine and women. lives with his parents so his expenses are virtually nil and he's just stacked cash instead of blowing it all on mountain dew and pokemon cards.
when i was 17 i had two vintage cars, was working two jobs and had money in the bank. not 10K but probably close to half that and if i wanted to build something wild the international bank of dad probably would've extended a short term loan for me.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 24,917
- Reaction score
- 12,270
When I was 17, I was in high-school, and working a buncha hours after school and on weekends, to send money home to my broke-azz parents, who were both working, and trying to feed five of us kids. Birth-Control was in it's infancy, and it was still not reliable, as attested to by the fact that I had a 7yo brother and a 5yo sister to prove it.
I, the first-born, was on my second car, a nearly new one this time, and it came with payments.
But that was 1970. Jobs were easy to come by and my boss was generous. Dad was 4 years into his first mortgage, on a new house of a thousand and forty sq ft, with a full unfinished basement, in a new neighborhood, that he paid just $14000C for. A new car could be had for under 3200C, but Dad drove a 62 LeSabre. A gallon of gas was 37 cents.
Hyup, those were the days.
But those days are G-O-N-E.
and they're never coming back, so long as our gove
I, the first-born, was on my second car, a nearly new one this time, and it came with payments.
But that was 1970. Jobs were easy to come by and my boss was generous. Dad was 4 years into his first mortgage, on a new house of a thousand and forty sq ft, with a full unfinished basement, in a new neighborhood, that he paid just $14000C for. A new car could be had for under 3200C, but Dad drove a 62 LeSabre. A gallon of gas was 37 cents.
Hyup, those were the days.
But those days are G-O-N-E.
and they're never coming back, so long as our gove
Figure on spending close to 20 grand. You will have 1/2 that in the motor and tranny. Exhaust and rear diff another 4 grand. Wheels and tires 2 grand minimum. Steering and suspension and radiator, mounts and many more odds and ends. Also someone with a bit of knowledge to help u sort things out. Good luck with your build. Kim
I missed the part where you are only 17, Good for you and planning big moves with your car - dream big and do stuff. I think most of the feedback is from guys who have started out trying to do things on a budget and then have had reality set in mid project. Your approaching this the right way by asking questions first. Good luck and don't be deterred.
If you think about it, it really isn't that much more to put a 440 in the car, some of the stuff that has been listed would need to be replaced if you kept the puny runt 273. If you get cracking on the swap now and get nice parts when you can afford them you might end up building a car you'll never sell or by the time it's done the car will be worth quite a bit.
Jim Lusk
Well-Known Member
I have done some 440 swaps. I don't have near $20k in any of the cars. Then again, I look for bargains and have been fortunate and been at this a long time. I build copies of the old Direct Connection k-member, but cores are getting very hard to find. I've had 440s pretty much drop in my lap as well. The bottom line is you don't need tons of expensive aftermarket parts. You just have to have a plan. Here's the 440 in my Barracuda and the 440 in my son's Dart. The Dart is first.
Jim Lusk
Well-Known Member
One more thing. I'm doing the same brakes and suspension no matter what engine. The car will handle reasonably well and stop well.
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