1968 SS Dart in progress

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Thanks guys :). Nearly five years to get her done! Thank you for posting that shot. I was so focused on other things I neglected to take a picture of the car at the track LOL. Talk about shaky runs, you should of seen me Saturday night. I definitely looked like an idiot out there, but I got her down the track in one piece and that allowed me some much needed seat time. It was a lot of fun and I am not disappointed at all. I have not done a lot of drag racing and it had been several years since my last pass and that was in my supercharged 92 fox body before I sold it. The big block, heck, the whole car is a totally different animal and I love it!!!!
We are going to have to pull the torque converter and send it back to Adrian at Edge converters to have it loosened up a little bit more. We need it to flash at 4000 RPM and it flashes religiously at 3500 RPM, just like he said it would! 0-60 ft. times are stuck in the 1.78's so we are giving up a lot of time there. We should be into the 11's fairly easily with the converter fixed. I am going to enjoy it around town for a little bit before I follow through with that and will install an auto meter mechanical water temp gauge, double check the thermostat temp, etc... I'll keep you posted along the way.
 
Man this thing is fun! I got her appraised and she booked out at $54,900.00 which is more than I thought it would be appraised at. This has allowed me to finally insure her for collector car status, avoid local emissions requirements, and get it registered. Just ironing out some cooling issues. Bad radiator! Once that is done, I'll have her detailed and hit a couple of shows before it hits the 110's.....Hopefully!
 
The weather in Arizona is starting to heat up but we are having an unusual break in the 90* weather in favor of some low 80* days! I now have collector car insurance and registered the car with 5 years on the tags. Good until 2020. I installed an auto meter mechanical water temp gauge and sure enough, the temp was getting up to 220 in no time. Turns out the "good" used radiator we installed was clogged. We also discovered that the Pioneer brand harmonic balancer was not assembled correctly which despite our best efforts, meant that the car was ran with a significant amount of retard. I purchased a nice Bosch bore scope to reliably view TDC and the timing mark for TDC on the balancer was clocked 30* off position! The car ran a 12.01 with approximately 15-20* of timing retard! I can't wait to run her again at full potential. We are purchasing a new Fluid Damper unit and a new radiator and I will install them next weekend and hopefully get some reliable street miles on her :). I should have more pictures as well. Hope all is well with your families and all of your projects. Enjoy Mother's Day :).
 
I'm going to clean all the crap off my Dart and start working on it on Monday, all because of you and your car! Seeing your build gets my blood pumping thinking about when my car will be done. Can't wait to see what you run with the proper timing.
 
Awesome Scott! Might as well get her on the road and enjoy her. Let me know if I can be of any assistance. I am selling a brand new Champion all aluminum 3-row radiator in the engine parts for sale forum. Just in case you need a radiator that is LOL. Seriously though, Hit me up if you have any questions. What type of build are you shooting for?
 
Awesome Scott! Might as well get her on the road and enjoy her. Let me know if I can be of any assistance. I am selling a brand new Champion all aluminum 3-row radiator in the engine parts for sale forum. Just in case you need a radiator that is LOL. Seriously though, Hit me up if you have any questions. What type of build are you shooting for?

A very similar build to what you have. I'm throwing in a 440/727, another 8&3/4 3:23's however keeping it 67 and cloning a GT. I plan to cut the rear fenders and add the hood scoop for the Hemi appearance. Stage I is getting The car setup and running, I hope by the end of the driving season here in Minnesota, and the interior. Stage II will be all the bodywork and paint and a built 440/727, subframes and rollbar. Stage III, if I ever get there, is a 572 Hemi to complete the cloning/tribute/ripoff package!

I have a 68 k frame, SS springs, weld wheels and a complete 67 GT interior to put in the car. 15 years and 15 miles is too much time not on the road!
 
Very cool Scott. Smart man sticking with the '67. There is quite a bit of fab work involved including replacing the rear tail light sections of the quarter panels to use either 68 or 69 tail lights. Plus, the '67 tail lights look great! Do you have a build thread?
 
Very cool Scott. Smart man sticking with the '67. There is quite a bit of fab work involved including replacing the rear tail light sections of the quarter panels to use either 68 or 69 tail lights. Plus, the '67 tail lights look great! Do you have a build thread?

I like the idea of creating a "what if" type of car. I got my car and shortly after found out about the GT model. A friends girlfriend got one out of California, then hit someone/something and crunched a front fender. Tried to buy it but she wouldn't sell. Lost touch with her and she had sold it for scrap. It needed work but was complete, black, bucket/console car. It was after that I decided to clone one. Then I found out about the Hemi Darts. After daydreaming for a few years that I could find and fix up 2 Darts, I settled on a 67 GT Hemi Dart. I got an interior from one guy, the tail panel from the people do Mopar umbrellas and beer koozies at the Bats in Columbus, grilles and emblems from swap meets. I even got a tattoo of a fender emblem on my arm before I had even seen one with my own eyes!

I do have a build thread, but it's just pics of a dirty car and some parts. I just looked and I haven't posted for over a year! When I found your thread I knew I had to get moving on my car or give everything away, and I'm not about to do that!
 
There is one video that another member shot of my running the car for the first time a few weekends back. This was its maiden run and I only ran a 12.01. Since then I have upgraded to a 440 source fluid damper balancer. The pioneer balancer was not assembled properly and the timing marks were not even close. The new one dialed in right on zero at TDC where as the pioneer showed showed 20* BTDC with cylinder one at TDC on compression stroke (all checked with a bore scope). I am having the distributor double checked due to some timing issues (way too much advance on throttle). Go to you tube and type in 132068dart. That should pull it up right away. I don't think it did too bad for the first time out. Once the convertor and ignition issues are ironed out she should be squarely into the 11's.
 
I was surprised to see no less than 4 of his cars there. The blue Demon, the orange and the red Hemi Darts, and the '64 altered wheel based Ford Falcon with all red glass. I was surprised to see them as the backdrop for a serious amount of interview time. I laughed when I saw my Dad in the background wearing the SS AFX shirt during the first interview with Mark. Nice photo bomb Dad :).
 
Well, summer is here again in sunny Arizona and the heat has been no friend to the Dart. I have been wrestling with cooling woes since finishing the build and have gained a bit more knowledge, and appreciation, for what it takes to get one of these a bodies with a 440 BB to cool here in the summer.
The following is a bit lengthy and detailed but a good example of what to do and what not to do in some cases.
I would like to share some of my insight with those of you who are interested. I started my build with a seasoned and stock bore 1972 440 block out of an RV. Instead of boring you with all of the build specs, I can tell you that it produces 525-550 HP. A relatively mild build. I am running A/C (aftermarket).
The first iteration of cooling system consisted of a stock core support opening, and the use of a 26" 2 row aluminum radiator that my Dad had sitting in his storage from a previous build. A brand new 440 source stamped water pump housing and 440 source water pump with correce .040 water pump gasket along with a factory 160* T-stat were installed. An 18" flex-a-lite flex fan and spacer were used due to lack of clearance. I installed an autometer classic mechanical temperature gauge for precision into one of the unused ports up in the water pump housing. The car would heat up to 180* from a cold start at idle in approximately 3 minutes. I know, way too fast! A check of the timing demonstrated a slipped timing ring on the professional products balancer. A new 440 source fluid damper was installed and timing set appropriately with consideration to the cam profile and mechanically advanced distributor curve. All wiring was thoroughly checked from the MSD 6AL ignition box to the ignition coil and it was discovered that the distributor wires were crossed. That fixed the jumpy timing interval issue. So, all of the electronics and timing were sorted out and perfect at this point. Still no help in the cooling department but now the car is tuned properly. All spark plugs within normal burn temperature. I took the Holley 850 double pumper with mechanical secondaries to Bob Reems and had him double check everything as he had built the carb and all flow characteristics and 4 corner idle circuits were within spec. No effect on cooling issue. Then, I installed a Mr. Gasket high flow 160* T-stat which did help the issue but I still could not drive the car in our lovely 105* degree heat with the A/C on without heating up to 240*. It cooled down to 230* without A/C on and would elevate back up to 240* at a stop light. I pulled the used aluminum radiator, inspected it and found that several of the cores were clogged with debris. That radiator went into the recycle bin! It was replaced with a freshly re-cored B body 4-row copper brass unit my Dad had in storage. A much larger radiator in all dimensions measuring in with a 28" core! Kind of overkill but remember, I am cooling a street/strip and air conditioned big block car...IN ARIZONA! An aluminum fan shroud was fabricated and installed. Surely this must fix the problem! Nope, not even close! Ok, back to the drawing board. Upon further inspection it was decided to perform surgery on the core support to expose the entire 28" core to incoming air. This was performed by removing the bumper, grill, trans cooler, A/C condenser, radiator, wiring, etc.. Next, the lower core support with cut along the factory break at the frame rails and lowered 2.5" and the top lip was removed from the core support to allow the radiator to come forward another 1". This turned out exceptionally well and now permitted the use of a factory 17" fan and fan clutch along with the aforementioned aluminum shroud. Airflow across the radiator was increased exponentially and I was sure this would solve my problem. You guessed it, still no good although a slightly longer warm up time was noticed. Talk about frustrating.
A call to Ron Davis radiators here in Arizona netted some vital information to properly diagnose block pressure and flow characteristics throughout the engine. They recommended I purchase an inexpensive water pressure gauge ($11.67) from home depot and install it using an available water port. This is the same gauge one would use if checking their home water pressure from a water spicket. I had already researched water pressure and flow characteristics online but did not think was relevant in light of using brand new 440 source parts. After all, wouldn't new parts perform great out of the box? My research proved otherwise! It turns out that block pressure should run around 15-16 psi at about 2000 rpm. I installed my newly acquired gauge using an available water port and had 8 psi at the gauge 2-3000 rpm! It does not matter if the thermostat is open or closed or if the water is hot or cold with this test according to Ron Davis. In this case Ron suggested I install a factory 160* thermostat instead of the high flow unit in order to promote increased pressure. No change. Next step was to replace the water pump as Ron informed me that most aftermarket water pumps just don't work well. He recommended a high flow Edelbrock but I had already purchased and had on hand a brand new FlowKooler unit along with a Mopar performance aluminum water pump housing "just in case". I assembled them with new Fel Pro gasket, re-used my high flow Mr. Gasket 160* T-stat, painted, and installed them. BINGO! An instant and obvious improvement in pressure to more that 20#'s at 2000 rpm was witnessed. I turned my attention to the flow characteristics through the radiator and WOW! The flow differential at idle when the T-stat opened up was greater than I had observed at 2000 rpm with the 440 source parts installed. It now takes 10 minutes for the car to heat up to 180* at idle vs. the previous 3 minutes and the heat coming off of the top of the engine is noticeably less. The car is still at my Dad's shop where I have performed all of the work. I was not able to take it out for an actual test drive as there were customer cars in the way and he left town for the 4th of July weekend. Dad will take it out for a test drive this week and if things still aren't the way we like them we will have a new aluminum radiator made for it.
The verdict is as follows. In my opinion and based on diagnostic testing, the 440 source parts do not perform well in a mildly built 440. They do not provide enough flow or pressure through the block to prevent steam pockets and cavitation. I reached this opinion by addressing all of the fundamentals in a step-by step, chronological fashion So far I have addressed fuel mixture, timing, performance of the distributor curve under advance conditions, fluid capacity, air flow capacity and air flow velocity at idle and at speed, fluid dynamics relative to mixture, flow, and pressure. I harbor no ill will towards the 440 source company or their products. There are more efficient options!
Included are pictures to show the radiator position prior to modifications. Also, The modifications themselves, and some pic's of the differences between the 440 source water pump housing and Mopar performance water pump housing. My hope is that this will help some people sort through the rhetoric and emotional posting that occurs when trying to find a solution the their cooling woes.
I will post sometime soon with the results of the rest drive, more pic's of the finished product, and details of any other changes made if necessary.
 

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I test drove the car and it is definitely cooling better! The car can be driven for around 8 miles with the A/C on before it gets up to 220*. Still not good enough for me so we are having Ron Davis fabricate a new aluminum radiator with two one inch cores. This is the final piece in the chain that requires replacing and should finish eliminating my cooling issues. I have attached a few more pictures during final assembly to show the new core support depth. Next up, design a 1/4" stainless mesh screen to install at the bottom of the radiator to protect it, design and install a custom aluminum baffle which will install between the grill and core support above the core to funnel all incoming air through the core, and install a new camshaft with a bit more duration. This Howard's cam seems a bit lazy.
 

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Hello everyone and happy upcoming 4th of July weekend :)!! It has been quite some time since my last posted update and for good reason. I had no idea what a pain in the a** properly repairing a rear main seal leak on a 440 could be! I have had the motor out twice since the initial build. The first was to replace the rear main seal and install another freshly built motor minus the casting flash infested block I had used during build of the first motor. Thankfully, Dad had another 440 block sitting in the shop free of coolant flow robbing casting flash in the cooling passages. Upon inspection with a bore scope, I discovered no less than approximately 80% of the cooling passages were blocked with rusted factory casting flash. The replacement block was in much better shape so all machining was completed to build the replacement short block and I installed a new two piece rear main and all was right with the world. Or so I thought! Major rear main seal leak! Here we go again! I trailered the car back up to my Dad's shop and removed everything again, disassembled, and replaced with a one piece rear main seal supplied by Fastfishautoparts.com. Bingo!!! Dry as a bone! That one piece seal of theirs works fantastic! Coupled with a high quality billet aluminum main seal block and following their well thought out directions, I have successfully eliminated the rear main seal leak on my 440!
I researched everything I could find on properly installing the rear main seal and discovered that test fitting and measuring the alignment of the main seal retainer channel to that in the engine block to be a must as well. Also, proper squaring of the retainer in relation to each side of the block by using a pair of feeler gauges during mock up to be of importance. By using the feeler gauges and taking up all of the slop while installing the seal retainer into the block, I eliminated all of the twist of the retainer during installation of the retainer which I believe was the cause of twisting the lower half of the previously installed two piece rear main seal and causing the leak! I purchased my billet seal retainer from 440 source as Fastfish was out of stock and found the 440 piece to be defective! The bolt holes were not concentric to the bolts and upon test fitting, their bolt flange contacted the edge of the bolt hole in the retainer and shifted the retainer out of position. Fortunately, Dad had an extra one on hand from Indy and it was flawless.
I highly recommend the seal from Fastfish. Yes, it is pricey but their one piece design along with proper installation procedures provided a perfect repair and not a single drop of oil leaked after 200 miles of driving and several heat cycles in our Arizona 110 degree weather.
The 850 Holley I had installed had issues as well. It was went into Competition Carburation to have it checked out and the thing was only flowing 725 CFM! Below is a list of the work performed and the results. This improved throttle response significantly!

Flowed 872 CFM ( Air Horn Modified But Air Cleaner Stud Intact)


Jetting Pri. #78 Sec #88


Primary has #4.5 Power Valve (Took Out Blocked Valve)


Both Primary and Secondary Metering Blocks are HP Now


High Speed Transition and Intermediate circuitry in metering blocks re-worked


Inlet Neddle and Seat Size .120


Re- Built Throttle Shafts and Accelerator Pump Linkage

Tested on Engine Run Stand With Big Block Chevy…..Responded Very Well
 
And I thought you were too busy driving the wheels off that Dart! That sucks you had the issues you did, but better now than when hammering on the car. Going back to the track now that it should be running better?
 
And I thought you were too busy driving the wheels off that Dart! That sucks you had the issues you did, but better now than when hammering on the car. Going back to the track now that it should be running better?
Yes LocuMob, I cannot wait for the fall weather and to hit the track to put down some 11 second runs :). I plan to show the car as well. I missed nearly two seasons and have plenty to make up for.
 
I just got the news from my Dad that a real L023 car will be making its way into the shop for a ground up restoration soon! I may start another thread with that restoration as it progresses. I'll keep you posted :)!
 
Sweet ride. I went the easy way and bought my 69 440'car 90% done. It's a blast to mash the gas and go.
 
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