I believe this is a 5 speed.. thinking of using it in my 64 dart.. I have a 318LA and a 318 magnum. Will it fit my LA? gearbox came out of a Dakota but that's all I know.
4 speed od or 5 speed
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Ben Drinkin
Hey bartender!
I believe there is some tunnel fabrication in your future.
yes indeed
tunnel fab is ok, is it going to mate up with my la though? any info on the install would be appreciated
It appears to have a small block bellhousing.
thank you , believe it came off a magnum, not sure of year or details on it though .. is it a true 5 speed or a 4speed od?
I never has used that terminology. If a transmission has 5 forward gears, it's a 5 speed, regardless of whether 5th is an OD.........which it is.
Much like the 833 4 speed OD. It has 4 forward gears, so it's a 4 speed. It's not a 3 speed OD, because it still carries an 833 designation which designates it as a 4 speed.
I don't know if Chrysler ever made a 3 speed OD or not, but both GM and Ford did. 3 forward gears, but 3rd was OD. It stands to reason Chrysler did too, but I have never seen one. I have my hands on a few Saginaw (GM) 3 speed OD transmissions and seen one Ford.
Much like the 833 4 speed OD. It has 4 forward gears, so it's a 4 speed. It's not a 3 speed OD, because it still carries an 833 designation which designates it as a 4 speed.
I don't know if Chrysler ever made a 3 speed OD or not, but both GM and Ford did. 3 forward gears, but 3rd was OD. It stands to reason Chrysler did too, but I have never seen one. I have my hands on a few Saginaw (GM) 3 speed OD transmissions and seen one Ford.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
To make this more clear, A Chrysler A833 OD gearbox is a 4 speed that has been re-engineered so that the old 3rd gear is an overdriven ratio instead of underdriven. Then the 3-4 shift lever is flipped, so that when you put the shifter into "4" the gearbox is in the "old" 3rd gear position, now acting as "high" or OD gear
But the old school 3 speed overdrives were actually a 3 speed standard transmission.......with an electrically operated, separate module in the tail, providing the OD gear.......much like the OD Torqueflites are now
Here's an example of an old 3 speed + OD
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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I have one of those Saginaw o/ds. Been in the attic for decades, in pieces. I think I might have converted it to a 4 spd.w/electric O/D.
Anybody know the ratios in that Dakota box?
Anybody know the ratios in that Dakota box?
thanks for the input guys, Its a 5 speed . how do the Dakota 5 speeds run as far as a performance . Is it worth the work with the extra gear? Do you know anyone who has done the Dakota drivetrain conversion and did they like it?
I haven't done a conversion, but I drove a 5 speed Dakota for awhile.
It's a truck transmission. It's geared like a truck transmission, and it shifts like a truck transmission. It's not a bad transmission, but it's nothing special either. I know that if I was going to do all the work of hacking out the tunnel and re-engineering the crossmember to mount it (because you'll have to), I'd be installing a TKO or a T56 instead.
It's a truck transmission. It's geared like a truck transmission, and it shifts like a truck transmission. It's not a bad transmission, but it's nothing special either. I know that if I was going to do all the work of hacking out the tunnel and re-engineering the crossmember to mount it (because you'll have to), I'd be installing a TKO or a T56 instead.
I cannot disagree about that up there ^^^^^^^
But, the Dakota transmission is easier on the budget.
But, the Dakota transmission is easier on the budget.
dartfever
Well-Known Member
Do you know what year Dakota the tranny is from? Early ones had the AX-15 the later ones have the nv3500. The pics I have looked at don't look like either though.
j par
Well-hung Member
Seems like a lot of work to make an oddity. I totally understand working with what you have, but in the end i don't think your going have what you are hoping for.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Thanks but until I get my "go fund me" page up, more than 4K? for that thing is beyond me.
No kiddin. I aint gonna have that much in my whole car.
j par
Well-hung Member
^^^^^ honestly overdrive a833's are all over Craigslist and flee bay for under $500.
I got my 4 speed non overdrive, shifter, linkage, pedals, bellhousing, flywheel, z bar for $800.
I had to add a few hundred to make it work.
oh yeah, I don't take to cursing very easily, but before it was all in I let out a few choice ones
rotest:
it was more than worth it in the end....
I got my 4 speed non overdrive, shifter, linkage, pedals, bellhousing, flywheel, z bar for $800.
I had to add a few hundred to make it work.
oh yeah, I don't take to cursing very easily, but before it was all in I let out a few choice ones
rotest:it was more than worth it in the end....
You can buy overdrive 833's for under $250. I have several, I paid $150 for a couple of them. Not a great gear spread, but they bolt in.
As for the Passon 5 speed, I think his waiting list is like a year out right now. And I see McLeod pushed the mopar version of their 5 speed back to next spring, it was slated for right about now.
As far as $4k goes, I don't think Passon's out of line at all. A TKO conversion will cost you more, and require floor mods. A T56 conversion will cost even more than that, and requires extensive floor mods. A bolt in $4k 5 speed is a pretty decent deal if you can lay your hands on one.
As far as the Dakota 5 speed, I just don't see doing that much work to end up with that transmission, regardless of how free the transmission is. An 833 OD would be much easier to install, and wouldn't end up being any worse than the Dak trans as far as street use.
As for the Passon 5 speed, I think his waiting list is like a year out right now. And I see McLeod pushed the mopar version of their 5 speed back to next spring, it was slated for right about now.
As far as $4k goes, I don't think Passon's out of line at all. A TKO conversion will cost you more, and require floor mods. A T56 conversion will cost even more than that, and requires extensive floor mods. A bolt in $4k 5 speed is a pretty decent deal if you can lay your hands on one.
As far as the Dakota 5 speed, I just don't see doing that much work to end up with that transmission, regardless of how free the transmission is. An 833 OD would be much easier to install, and wouldn't end up being any worse than the Dak trans as far as street use.
Thanks again, I guess I have more thinking to do . the car is going to have 411 gears in it and I wanted to help it out a little on the highway, and yes I am on a budget a 4g gearbox is out of the question.
After doing a little more homework, I found out a few more details. Its a nv 2500 built in Syracuse . Was part of some combined effort to build gearboxes and transm. for ford ,mopar, and gm.. almost unbelievable. Syracuse apparently built for ford and mopar lol. ok does anyone know about this box and is it decent for my car.. on a budget
Obviously you are trying to do this on a budget, therefore a Tremec or Passon, though very nice is not in your future.
You should be able to get the date of manufacture, model, etc from the stampings on the case. Then you could look up the breakdown of the gear ratios. Usually, truck transmission use a pretty steep first gear so you may not need to go to a 4:10 rear gear because of the torque multiplication in first. Let's say it's 3.09:1 in first. Multiply that by 4.10 and you get 12.67. Compare that to a typicalal Mopar 4 speed with a 2.66 first gear and a 3.23 rear end ratio. Multiplied out that's 8.59: coming out of the hole. The early /6 4 speeds used a 3.09 first gear and is a sneaky way to get better acceleration down low while still using a reasonable rear gear. Do some quick calcs and you may find that you can get away with a 3.55, 3.73. or 3.91.
I've come to the conclusion that the biggest gains in gas mileage come from using an OD. I like the budget idea but the trans tunnel (and T-bar crossmember) will definitely need some work. If it's a Dakota transmission used behind a Magnum, you should be able to get it to work using mostly used junkyard parts..
You should be able to get the date of manufacture, model, etc from the stampings on the case. Then you could look up the breakdown of the gear ratios. Usually, truck transmission use a pretty steep first gear so you may not need to go to a 4:10 rear gear because of the torque multiplication in first. Let's say it's 3.09:1 in first. Multiply that by 4.10 and you get 12.67. Compare that to a typicalal Mopar 4 speed with a 2.66 first gear and a 3.23 rear end ratio. Multiplied out that's 8.59: coming out of the hole. The early /6 4 speeds used a 3.09 first gear and is a sneaky way to get better acceleration down low while still using a reasonable rear gear. Do some quick calcs and you may find that you can get away with a 3.55, 3.73. or 3.91.
I've come to the conclusion that the biggest gains in gas mileage come from using an OD. I like the budget idea but the trans tunnel (and T-bar crossmember) will definitely need some work. If it's a Dakota transmission used behind a Magnum, you should be able to get it to work using mostly used junkyard parts..
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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^^Which is why I asked about ratios. Might as well ask about torque handling too.
The 833 O/D has very wide ratios and is more suited to engines with wide flat torque curves that begin right off idle. Like slantys, and maybe Magnum 318s.
AS soon as you put a healthy cam in, You are moving the torque peak up, and tightening up the powerband. This tranny will handicap you there.If you bring the compression up at the same time, it may not be quite as bad but really,behind my 360 with the 292/509 cam it really sucked. Behind the same engine with a 223* cam it was sorta bearable. That's when I bought the GV and began using it as a splitter. Problem solved. When I moved to the 232* cam, I shelved that tranny. Instead I obtained a 3.09 low/direct4th gearset(thanx to Passon) , and put the GV behind that. Now it's a 5 speed with progressive ratios.
And that's what you need with any small cid engine. So that takes us back to your Dak box. If the ratios are progressive, with non-granny first gear, and you keep our engine power to within the trannys limits, I think it could be sweet. But if a granny gear is in there, depending on where 2nd is, it could break the deal.
The 833 O/D has very wide ratios and is more suited to engines with wide flat torque curves that begin right off idle. Like slantys, and maybe Magnum 318s.
AS soon as you put a healthy cam in, You are moving the torque peak up, and tightening up the powerband. This tranny will handicap you there.If you bring the compression up at the same time, it may not be quite as bad but really,behind my 360 with the 292/509 cam it really sucked. Behind the same engine with a 223* cam it was sorta bearable. That's when I bought the GV and began using it as a splitter. Problem solved. When I moved to the 232* cam, I shelved that tranny. Instead I obtained a 3.09 low/direct4th gearset(thanx to Passon) , and put the GV behind that. Now it's a 5 speed with progressive ratios.
And that's what you need with any small cid engine. So that takes us back to your Dak box. If the ratios are progressive, with non-granny first gear, and you keep our engine power to within the trannys limits, I think it could be sweet. But if a granny gear is in there, depending on where 2nd is, it could break the deal.
furyus2
Well-Known Member
I'm curious why a world class t5 isn't considered. I know you can't beat the snot out of it, but for a nice O D trans with a small size, they seem like a good idea behind a mild small block.
pishta
I know I'm right....
any 5sp is an "O/D": just means the drive shaft is overdriven by the crank speed. 4th is 1:1 regardless. this covers about 90% of 5 speeds. Watch shifter location with that Dak tranny. measure. you dont want to be rowing from the back seat.
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