408 vs. 440: Which Would You Choose?

[roccodart440]

How is the handling with that BB in an A-body driving in everyday reality. Not just going straight.

No different than a small block . That is like asking, how does your car handle when you have a passenger riding shotgun. If a couple hundred pounds make or breaks the handling of your car. The engine isn't the issue. guys are autocrossing big block A bodies.

 

[FredS]

That weight isn't in the center of the car, its sticking out in front. Weight distribution has to be off enough to feel different, even slightly different. Nose heavy comes to mind.

 

[roccodart440]

Again, it would be like saying a stock small block car cant handle because of the weight of the engine.

They are auto crossing big blocks. The weight is an old wives tale, a myth. The comparisons have been gone over many times.


360 = 550 vs. 440 = 670. Difference 120 pounds.

Really? 120 pounds is nose heavy?

Now BB iron heads weigh 51lbs each. Aluminum heads weigh 26lbs. Difference 50lbs.

BB iron intake 40lbs vs. aluminum intake 15lbs. Difference of 25 lbs

BB iron manifolds 50 lbs vs. headers 25 lbs . difference of 25 lbs

iron water pump/housing 20lbs vs. aluminum, setup 5 lbs. difference of 15 lbs


115lbs difference.

The small block weighs 5 pounds less in stock trim. 120 lbs less stock.


Again. Myth or fact. Your choice.

 

[dartcuda1]

Again, it would be like saying a stock small block car cant handle because of the weight of the engine.

They are auto crossing big blocks. The weight is an old wives tale, a myth. The comparisons have been gone over many times.


360 = 550 vs. 440 = 670. Difference 120 pounds.

Really? 120 pounds is nose heavy?

Now BB iron heads weigh 51lbs each. Aluminum heads weigh 26lbs. Difference 50lbs.

BB iron intake 40lbs vs. aluminum intake 15lbs. Difference of 25 lbs

BB iron manifolds 50 lbs vs. headers 25 lbs . difference of 25 lbs

iron water pump/housing 20lbs vs. aluminum, setup 5 lbs. difference of 15 lbs


115lbs difference.

The small block weighs 5 pounds less in stock trim. 120 lbs less stock.


Again. Myth or fact. Your choice.

This is where you go to get. Answers. Check the actual weight out for yourself. I had some real good running small blocks and never wanted a big block. I did the math on weight and went big block. The car handles every bit as well as my small blocks did. Weight is just that a meth. Oh with the big block and a six speed tha total weight of the car is 3200 pounds. Mark. Ps 1967 fastback barracuda

 

[mguner]

If you want it to handle well go with the small block, if you want it to have amazing torque on demand go with the big block.

 

[roccodart440]

Because 5 lbs will make or break the handling of your car.

Please read the above posts. /\ /\ /\

 

[stroked340]

You mean a very highly built 360.

No.. just a properly built one..

 

[66fs]

No different than a small block . That is like asking, how does your car handle when you have a passenger riding shotgun. If a couple hundred pounds make or breaks the handling of your car. The engine isn't the issue. guys are autocrossing big block A bodies.

Having an Original 383 Formula S 383 Barracuda for about 30 years, this is correct. Yes, I've also had small block cars so I do know what I'm talking about. If you want to throw a 440 engine and transmission in a /6 car and hit the corners, you will be disappointed.

 

[LocuMob]

Having an Original 383 Formula S 383 Barracuda for about 30 years, this is correct. Yes, I've also had small block cars so I do know what I'm talking about. If you want to throw a 440 engine and transmission in a /6 car and hit the corners, you will be disappointed.

That's what I plan to do. Of course my /6 no sway bar car leaned like crazy putting a small block in it. Aside from stiffer shocks and bigger torsion bars, what else is there to do in stock form? Waiting patiently for a reply. Thanks.

 

[roccodart440]

That's what I plan to do. Of course my /6 no sway bar car leaned like crazy putting a small block in it. Aside from stiffer shocks and bigger torsion bars, what else is there to do in stock form? Waiting patiently for a reply. Thanks.

I drove mine for over a decade with .870 bars, crap shocks and drum brakes....with a 440.

When I began upgrades I went to disc brakes. This is something I would recommend just for safety.

I then went to tubular upper control arms. This out of everything helped the most. I was able to get some decent alignment specs into the car and got the slop out of it.

I went with the tubular lowers.

Last I got QA1 single adjustable shocks.


Then I sold it all and bought and alterkation.

 

[LocuMob]

I drove mine for over a decade with .870 bars, crap shocks and drum brakes....with a 440.

When I began upgrades I went to disc brakes. This is something I would recommend just for safety.

I then went to tubular upper control arms. This out of everything helped the most. I was able to get some decent alignment specs into the car and got the slop out of it.

I went with the tubular lowers.

Last I got QA1 single adjustable shocks.


Then I sold it all and bought and alterkation.

My basic formula right there. Keep the /6 bars, going to discs right away, will think about the tubular upper and lowers. I don't plan on doing any autocross with the car.

 

[roccodart440]

My basic formula right there. Keep the /6 bars, going to discs right away, will think about the tubular upper and lowers. I don't plan on doing any autocross with the car.

The tubular uppers are worth it for the geometry and weight saving. Plus they look amazing..

If I was to run a factory setup again. I would do the following:

Light bars, at least .870's.
single but preferably double adjustable front shocks.
Tube uppers
Tube lowers
73 and newer Kframe for the spool mounts and the option of running a sway bar with the tubular lowers. The reason I wouldn't run the tube K is it is still not certain whether it can be modded to use the big block swap mounts.

I have to say, after going with an AlterKtion I'd be very hard pressed not to save up and just go that route. There is no comparison in every way. Looks, function, fitment, weight, ease of install. 5 stars.

 

[wade]

my 416 stroker makes 550+hp 550+tq

 

[66fs]

That's what I plan to do. Of course my /6 no sway bar car leaned like crazy putting a small block in it. Aside from stiffer shocks and bigger torsion bars, what else is there to do in stock form? Waiting patiently for a reply. Thanks.

Big front sway bar and heavy duty rear leaf springs. Not necessarily stiffer shocks but better shocks. When you can, add torque boxes and frame connectors. At least 10 in drum brakes but I would also convert to Disc Brakes, either SBP or BBP what ever matches the bolt pattern on the rear. Adjust or rebuild your steering box.

 

[PhillH]

Well I just have to say this, my SB is a tight fit, I can't imagine what it must be like to deal with working on a BB, from what I hear you have to cut holes in the sheet metal just to change spark plugs. Now if you have alot of time and alot of patience, want that bad @ss big block by all means go for it.
Now if you want to make your life a little easier, oh and maybe actually go around a corner once in awhile, SB all the way. Nothing wrong with straight line performance, just that are you past the days of wanting any sort of sporty driving??? Up to you, it's how you drive, not how fast that should decide this as they both can be made fast.

 

[ir3333]

You mean a very highly built 360.

A mild 440 makes over 400hp and over 500ft//lbs.

.No denying which makes the most power.
500 ft. lbs in an A body is the problem.A friend has a 408 in his '68 Dart and says it's useless, he gets tire spin in every gear and would never do it again.
having everything matched is the key.I think there is a post right now on how the heck do you get the spark plugs out of a 440 A body.
..don't even mention the mileage / handling /braking

 

[MrJLR]

.No denying which makes the most power.
500 ft. lbs in an A body is the problem.A friend has a 408 in his '68 Dart and says it's useless, he gets tire spin in every gear and would never do it again.
having everything matched is the key.I think there is a post right now on how the heck do you get the spark plugs out of a 440 A body.
..don't even mention the mileage / handling /braking

^^^^^This

 

[roccodart440]

Well I just have to say this, my SB is a tight fit, I can't imagine what it must be like to deal with working on a BB, from what I hear you have to cut holes in the sheet metal just to change spark plugs..

Believe it or not its no harder, in some way s easier. There is 1, yes one plug you need to make a small 1" diameter (or smaller) hole to change the plug. And that is only if you run TTI or proparts headers. It is not needed with some of the others.

.No denying which makes the most power.
500 ft. lbs in an A body is the problem.A friend has a 408 in his '68 Dart and says it's useless, he gets tire spin in every gear and would never do it again.
having everything matched is the key.I think there is a post right now on how the heck do you get the spark plugs out of a 440 A body.
..don't even mention the mileage / handling /braking

Then his car isn't setup right and/or he isn't driving it right. I make far more than that and can hook it up on the street and the strip. On the street it takes slightly more skill. On the strip it dead hooks on DOT tires. I don't have any pictures of it leaving on the street. Below is one from the strip on full tread street tires.

Have you read anything? One spark plug is an issue if you run certain headers. One. Braking, handling are unaffected. You are talking somewhere between 5 and 120 pounds difference.

and 408 is a small block. So I'm not seeing your point, being anti big block and using a small block as a reference.

 

[ir3333]

Then his car isn't setup right and/or he isn't driving it right. I make far more than that and can hook it up on the street and the strip. On the street it takes slightly more skill. On the strip it dead hooks on DOT tires. I don't have any pictures of it leaving on the street. Below is one from the strip on full tread street tires.

Have you read anything? One spark plug is an issue if you run certain headers. One. Braking, handling are unaffected. You are talking somewhere between 5 and 120 pounds difference.

and 408 is a small block. So I'm not seeing your point, being anti big block and using a small block as a reference.[/QUOTE]

Yes,you are correct.His car has stock suspension,ride height and 21570R14 radials.The car is
not well balanced and is overpowered.A warm sm. blk would be a better fit for his car.
Your car is very nice,appears to be built to handle big power for straight line performance and
i'm sure is what a lot of our members would love to have.Well done!

 

[roccodart440]

Yes,you are correct.His car has stock suspension,ride height and 21570R14 radials.The car is
not well balanced and is overpowered.A warm sm. blk would be a better fit for his car.
Your car is very nice,appears to be built to handle big power for straight line performance and
i'm sure is what a lot of our members would love to have.Well done!

It would be overpowered with almost any engine over a slant 6. Those are tiny tires. I'll also assume they are small bolt pattern. So it sounds like he dropped a big nasty engine in a car setup for a slant 6 or a 318. Which is fine if you want all show and no go. Which some do and that's ok! But you can't be disappointed when it won't perform.

My car by the way could quickly be setup to handle with tires and shock adjustments, but as you can see that isn't my purpose. I built mine to primarily cruise and show with the occasional trip to the dragstrip. When I race at the drags I like to put it in a DOT class whenever possible. It is capable of wining in a regular non-electronics footbrake class. THe DOT stuff is the most impressive to me though.

 

[ir3333]

It would be overpowered with almost any engine over a slant 6. Those are tiny tires. I'll also assume they are small bolt pattern. So it sounds like he dropped a big nasty engine in a car setup for a slant 6 or a 318. Which is fine if you want all show and no go. Which some do and that's ok! But you can't be disappointed when it won't perform.

.

No, it is a 340 car but you are correct again, the stock 340 suspension and brakes even when new were only adequate and the regular 318 or slant six suspensions were worse..neither could be pushed.
I can't imagine a 500 ft lbs big block in one of those cars....Lord help you if you had to react in an emergency at or above highway speeds.
that was my point...a balanced package will suit some members better.

 

[FredS]

it was fun roasting the stock 14s when I dropped my 408 in. With the chassis mods, and drag radials, its still fun, but more controlled.

Guess it comes down to what you have to either go big or small block.

OP: you stated this long ago in this thread: I'm leading towards building the 440 since it looks like it'd be cheaper to build than a 408 as everything else is a wash.

Seems you already know what you want to do. Plenty of opinions on the subject, so its really a matter of what YOU want to do.