440 Breakdown/Rebuild

-
ToMang07

ToMang07

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
396
Reaction score
199
Location
Maine
So went to compression test my motor, and basically couldn't. Too many valves sticking open. Lots of sludge in the heads and oil pan. So at this point I'm planning to have the heads shipped out and checked/rebuilt, maybe decked a little. (Any suggestions?)

At this point I think I'll pop the pistons out and re-ring while I have it out. All the cylinders are very clean and smooth, no grooves or marks of any kind. Probably would be fine as-is, but might as well do it while the heads are out, it's not expensive, just time consuming.

Here are some pics/videos. I'm open to suggestions/ideas.
Mopar 440 Motor Breakdown And Rebuild by T ToMang07

 
My advice would be to take the engine completely apart. Have all specs checked at the machine shop. The bores could be worn, crank main, and rod journals, etc. Make sure everything is in spec, before putting the engine back together. I guess you only want to do it once.
 
Well, checked out a couple machine shops, and I will have the short block professionally done. The place I'll bring it to wants $500 for the whole block cleaned, tanked, checked, bored, and decked and ready to go. Another $350 to assemble the short block if I bring them the parts. I'll buy the Stealth heads and install them myself. At this point I'm planning on these:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic9953ktm040
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-6760c3d
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k21-601-5
 
According to Comp Cams you will have too much compression for a Thumper camshaft.

Take the heads apart, clean the ports, check the valve guide clearance, grind for pushrod clearance, replace the damaged valves, replace the valve locks, do a good valve job, have the heads milled flat, clean and reassemble.

The valve locks and seals that come in that kit are for 3/8 stem valves and you have 11/32 stem valves with the Stealth heads.
 
I totally missed that. Any better cam suggestions?
 
Cam suggestion? No, not from me. But there will 15 suggestions from others, so just hang on, they'll chime in.
 
I ran that Comp XE284H cam in a .030 over 440 with prepped Stealth heads, RPM intake, 750cfm 4bbl and this is what it did on the dyno..........

RPM...............TQ/HP
3000............484/277
3100............492/290
3200............510/311
3300............537/338
3400............542/351
3500............548/365
3600............547/375
3700............545/384
3800............551/398
3900............546/405
4000............544/414
4100............543/424
4200............538/430
4300............534/437
4400............533/446
4500............532/455
4600............532/466
4700............533/477
4800............532/485
4900............532/495
5000............532/507
5100............530/514
5200............518/513
5300............504/508
5400............499/513
5500............483/506
5600............465/496
 
IQ52 said:
I ran that Comp XE284H cam in a .030 over 440 with prepped Stealth heads, RPM intake, 750cfm 4bbl and this is what it did on the dyno..........

RPM...............TQ/HP
3000............484/277
3100............492/290
3200............510/311
3300............537/338
3400............542/351
3500............548/365
3600............547/375
3700............545/384
3800............551/398
3900............546/405
4000............544/414
4100............543/424
4200............538/430
4300............534/437
4400............533/446
4500............532/455
4600............532/466
4700............533/477
4800............532/485
4900............532/495
5000............532/507
5100............530/514
5200............518/513
5300............504/508
5400............499/513
5500............483/506
5600............465/496
Click to expand...

I like those numbers. Any info on the rest of the build? That sounds about exactly where I want to be. When you say "Stealth prepped" heads, you mean just as they came? And did you keep the stock rockers?
 
ToMang07 said:
I like those numbers. Any info on the rest of the build? That sounds about exactly where I want to be. When you say "Stealth prepped" heads, you mean just as they came? And did you keep the stock rockers?
Click to expand...
Read this thread, post #7 is what we do to prep Stealths or any other head.

OOTB Stealth vs Prepped Stealth?

Better still is this build, done by another engine builder, using ported Stealth heads, gasket matched RPM intake, a larger carburetor and the same camshaft. I'm sending you first, to the page with the dyno sheet. If you back up to the first page and read the entire thread, he better describes the build.

An Error Has Occurred!
 
IQ52 said:
Cam suggestion? No, not from me. But there will 15 suggestions from others, so just hang on, they'll chime in.
Click to expand...
I take that back. I guess you won't getum and they won't givum.
 
Rod Bolt Guide came in, so I dropped the pistons today. Also got a bore reading and got exactly 4.320, which is great since that means the motor has not been rebuilt or bored out before.



More pics of the rods/pistons being uploaded to the photobucket album. A couple of the wrist pins were very tight.
 
So, at this point, my build plan is this:

Heads: Source 440 Stealth w/upgraded keepers, Ported/Polished.
Block Cleaned/dipped/decked/bored .040.
Cam: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-cl23-233-4
Rods: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-6760c3d
Pistons: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic9953ktm040
Gear Drive: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g6715
Bearings Clevite H-Series
Fluid Damper.
6-Quart A-body Oil Pan w/ Windage Tray
Melling High Pressure Pump

Exhaust it's a tossup between Schumacker Tri-Ys and TTI 2" Headers. I like the performance of the TTIs, but fit seems to be a problem for people more often than not.

Intake is still up in the air. I'm torn between a 4 barrel, or a dual-quad. At this point I've narrowed it down to a few:

Dual Quad: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cmb-03-0186

4-Barrel Manifold: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2954
Carbs: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1812 (or) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-0-82951

4-Barrel EFI: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-29545
EFI Carb: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fif-30008
 
Valve springs? 440 Source doesn't recommend using their springs for that camshaft. I would use Comp Cams 924-16 or 925-16. You can use either of those springs with the Stealth retainers and the replacement locks (is that what you are referring to as keepers?) you are going to use.
 
IQ52 said:
Valve springs? 440 Source doesn't recommend using their springs for that camshaft. I would use Comp Cams 924-16 or 925-16. You can use either of those springs with the Stealth retainers and the replacement locks (is that what you are referring to as keepers?) you are going to use.
Click to expand...

Probably the Ccomp ones they recommend, that or beehives. And yes, retainers.

yellow rose said:
Either buy a Milodon 3 gear drive or use a timing chain. Those floating idle gear drives are JUNK JUNK JUNK. Don't waste your money.
Click to expand...

I liked the idea of gears over chain so there is no slop, and I am not a fan of the single unit because it needs the billet cover that is pretty ridiculously priced IMO. I've spent a lot of time on here and elsewhere and I haven't really found anything saying they are bad or anyone having issues with them, what am I missing?
 
ToMang07 said:
I totally missed that. Any better cam suggestions?
Click to expand...


Do you really want a hydraulic? I'd stay away from the thumpr cam too. I'd lean towards a solid cam if that were my mill. I'll look a couple up in my catalogs, let me know solid or hyd
 
ToMang07 said:
Probably the Ccomp ones they recommend, that or beehives. And yes, retainers.



I liked the idea of gears over chain so there is no slop, and I am not a fan of the single unit because it needs the billet cover that is pretty ridiculously priced IMO. I've spent a lot of time on here and elsewhere and I haven't really found anything saying they are bad or anyone having issues with them, what am I missing?
Click to expand...


Because they are very inaccurate. That's why the floater has 2 different sized gears. When you back off the throttle the gears float between the cam and crank gears. I don't remember how far off the cam timing moved the one time I checked one but it was far enough I would not use it.

There are used gear drives for sale all the time.
Those floating idler gear drives are cheap to manufacture and easy to install. Other than that, they are worthless, even on a street engine.
 
yellow rose said:
Because they are very inaccurate. That's why the floater has 2 different sized gears. When you back off the throttle the gears float between the cam and crank gears. I don't remember how far off the cam timing moved the one time I checked one but it was far enough I would not use it.

There are used gear drives for sale all the time.
Those floating idler gear drives are cheap to manufacture and easy to install. Other than that, they are worthless, even on a street engine.
Click to expand...


Maybe I'm wrong but I've always felt like a quality chain was up to the task and if I personally were to upgrade I always planed to go with a timing belt setup.
 
FiTech all the Way! Stick with a single plane for your build, have read a lot of articles that the Dual Plan and TBI do not always get along.

I would support Johnny over at Pace Performance over Summit in this case. Since you are spending some money, get an aftermarket Dizzy that can control the timing with the Fitech. I have contacted Pace several times to ask questions and had them answered immediately, way better than the Fitech Support.

After installing the fuel command center (Great piece) I would entertain getting the stealth tank. It seemed like an equal amount of work, but a more permanent solution for the high pressure setup.
 
Heres my build

1978 RV 440 motor. +30 0ver = 446ci 10.35.to1 fordged TRW Speed Pro pistons, Steel crank internally balanced. Comp cams .488 ,491 lift - Duration @.006 274, 286. 915 heads slightly cleaned up ports, upgraded vale train & Springs, Johnson BB lifters, Aluminum water pump housing and water pump, Speed Pro Harmonic balancer, Holley Street Dominator intake, Quickfuel SS-750 mechanical DP, MSD 6AL, MSD 8546 race distributer and coil, Schumacker Ceramic coated Tri-Y header, Motor mounts and Torque arm.
Backed up by a torqueflite 727 transmission with a Hughes 2800 stall speed converter with a cheetah automatic/manual reverse valve body.
I have an 8 3/4 Sure Grip rear with 3.55 gears

20170216_221828.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top