Theoretically what should this thing run with the parts I have now? Either way I may use the extra parts laying around to build a junk yard 440 lol. I have a 68 hp block sitting here. Well I guess I'm like a woman who can't make up her mind on what purse goes with her shoes Lol. What rpms am I looking at with these pistons? They are heavy but will that effect the cast crank strength? I need to figure out if this big cam will push the valves into the pistons. The pistons have no reliefs cut. Do you think that is an issue or do I just clay test? Is the biggest cam I've ever bought. I really wish I could upload these pics because that would save me from having to explain everything all over again. Thank you for the quick reply.
440 duster. Need engine build advice
- Thread starter billyboyd
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rbdart
Well-Known Member
How far down in the hole[deck height] are the pistons? and what part number is on the top of piston?,and your heads,are they milled[shaved] or stock combustion chambers[cc's] stop worrying about the castcrank it'll take alot of abuse,never seen one break yet...you need to know the heads cc's and your piston deck height to determine your compression,the cam you have is decent, alot of people running them,the more info the better for you and people trying to figure for you...dont be afraid to ask,I've asked alot of my own ??'s in the past and will again if I'm not sure....another thing is what tranny and convertor,gears,chassis set up[stock or modified like ss springs,frame tied,shocks etc]
rbdart
Well-Known Member
Hell I'm still trying to figure mine out,sometimes you can overthink **** and drive yourself nutty,and yes you can run what you have now should run good,similar to mine in alot of ways but everyone has a different take on combos
Best to take the flywheel with. The clutch should come balanced.
Whoa, whoa. Why 600 HP? 500 HP on the street is really dangerous. I mean, it's okay to want 600 HP, no problem with the wanting, but do you need it? Isn't your engine already balanced and assembled? If so, I would encourage you to run what you have.
It's unlikely your heads will support the 600 HP goal unless they were professionaly prepared. People here have heard me say this a million times.....My Pop told me there are three secrets to making horsepower. The first two are cylinder heads and third and most important is cylinder heads.
Still, it's okay to do 600 HP if you must. I have a guy who started out wanting a small block 408 bottom end good for 600 HP with just 500 HP at the flywheel for now. We're just starting his build and are working on the cylinder heads. He called yesterday and now wants 550 HP because a friend just had his 426 Hemi dyno 500 HP and he doesn't want to be beat by the Hemi. Hello cam change and goodbye to some more street manners. So okay, we'll do it for him. I know he'll want more before this is over.
roccodart440
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I would want a forged crank as well and lightweight pistons will help with balence but performance as well. I don't think it matters whether you have floating or pressed pins. Thre are pros and cons to both.
I used LY rods in both of my engines, while they were both 500hp level engines there was never an issue. I plan to go 650 on my current engine with the new combo and i'm not switching the rods.
You should work the rods though and this can be done very inexpensively if you do it yourself. Beam polish them and have them shot peened. Resized with new bearings and use ARP Waveloc bolts.
I don't know if that cam will take you to 600hp with basicly stock heads. I'd bet a paycheck it won't. Now with good ported iron heads and/or a really big cam I know you can make 600hp on iron heads.
I wouldn't run a VS carb on a bet. Well if it were a great carb, free and I didn't care about performace (street cruiser)...I'd consider it. The whole vac is better for the street and mech is a race carb is BS. If tuned right and driven properly it is all around better.
rbdart
Well-Known Member
Was just fixing to tell you go read IQ52's posts on just such issues...so there you go...he's on it now.....
nitrojunkee
Well-Known Member
Basically, if your heads will flow @ 300cfm and the rest of your build is optimized, you should be able to make 600hp at sea level. You can mess with porting the hell out of iron heads, or you can buy a good aluminum head, clean them up and pretty much get there. And you'll be saving some weight as well as being able to get away with about a point more of compression, if you were so inclined.
rbdart
Well-Known Member
On the VS carbs...I know a guy who has a 80 dodge shtbd pu with basic 451 auto runs 10.80's with a 3310 VS 780 carb...for the very reason I implied above..he said he just blasted the tires off with the DP...at the time I was thinking about building a shtbd trk with a 440 so I was inquiring about his,carries the front end up for about 30-40 feet and is very consistant...440 crank and rods,iron heads,590 cam...he's run at MoKan for yrs[asbury mo]..guess either or can be made to work depends on person and set-up....
russhal
Well-Known Member
Run what you have and have fun while you save your money for a new build. Having a car you can drive always keeps you focused on the hobby. You won't break it unless you try to use nos or over rev it or something.
JoeDust451
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500 fwhp is plenty enough on the street, I have a very mild 469 BBC in my cutlass, its around 450 fwhp & over 500 lb. torque, You can only apply so much hp on street pavement, even with good tires, unless you have a great suspention you'll just smoke the tires & go no where, I'm in the process of installing a 750-780 vs to calm the torque down & be able to pass up a few gas stations.
You can put together a fairly mild 440 & have plenty of fun, especially in an A body, I ran 10.9s with "bone stock" 906 heads in my 451, It was very streetable, XE284H cam, M1 single plane, 1.7/8" headers, 750dp, compression was 9.73 (180psi) cranking pressure, 4.10 gears, tight PTC 4400 stall, I shifted at 5600, 10.9s was very scary on the street on the tight back roads when i made test runs, I had to let off in mid-2nd. gear & be on the brakes.
What i'm basically saying is you don't need 600 hp for a vehicle your primarily going to run on the street, unless your trying to pull 4000+ lbs.
You can put together a fairly mild 440 & have plenty of fun, especially in an A body, I ran 10.9s with "bone stock" 906 heads in my 451, It was very streetable, XE284H cam, M1 single plane, 1.7/8" headers, 750dp, compression was 9.73 (180psi) cranking pressure, 4.10 gears, tight PTC 4400 stall, I shifted at 5600, 10.9s was very scary on the street on the tight back roads when i made test runs, I had to let off in mid-2nd. gear & be on the brakes.
What i'm basically saying is you don't need 600 hp for a vehicle your primarily going to run on the street, unless your trying to pull 4000+ lbs.
roccodart440
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Figure most of your run of the mill performance cars off the showroom floor are 400's CHP. So 600 is pretty radical but hey, excess can be fun. :burnout:
I'm running 500hp at the crank and that is a ton of power and can be a handlefull if you aren't careful.
I'm running 500hp at the crank and that is a ton of power and can be a handlefull if you aren't careful.
JoeDust451
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Tell me about it, especially in a 3000 lb. vehicle.
Heres a good article on a 600 hp 440 build.
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/parts/engine/mopp_0510_mauler_440_motor/
nitrojunkee
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming you're a grown man? If you want a 600hp street car, build it! My procharged 496 Wedge build is going back into an A-body, and it is what I consider a street car. Even if you just think it will be cool, that's good enough. Don't let people talk you out of what YOU want. Do you homework/research, and a lot of it. Be meticulous and try to think everything through. I suggest not just throwing anything together because that's what you have, or "it" fits your budget.
Have fun! ;)
Have fun! ;)
The pistons are .5 in the hole from the deck. The heads are not milled so 78cc I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. Iam no longer worried about the crank. And I may have been overt thinking this build but it's hard not to lol. I guess I'm just really excited. The heads are polished up. That's it. I ported the intake and port match everything thus far. Headers are 2 inch fender Wells made by hooker. The car is tubbed, 8.75 rear end with 410 gears, fuel cell and trunk battery. Full bucket interior. Brand new shocks, super stock leafs, oh ya and completely Rust FREE. Lol. Frame tied. 727 with reverse pattern. The converter is of unknown origin. That's about it I guess. I just picked up another demon and will be going to pick it up this weekend. Lol. I plan to build a drag car with the leftover/extra parts from the duster. This Eau nothing goes to waste. Plus I will convert the duster into a demon and the new demon into the duster. I sure do miss my demon. Any way. If I could get these uploaded my life would sure get easier. But my wife will be here on Saturday so I will make her do it haha. We currently live 1.5 hours apart. But only for a few months. Gotta go where the money is. You guys are seriously the best. I appreciate the info and look forward to your advice.
rbdart
Well-Known Member
Hopefully you meant .050 and not .50 that would be 1/2"...lol
cletus
Cooter's Apprentice
I had a cast crank/rod 440 internally balanced with the +7cc Speed Pro forged pistons (flat top with valve reliefs) - you can get a harmonic balancer specific to this application from Summit for about 80 or 90 bucks. I still have the factory torque converter behind it and it feels like it may have a little more vibration but doesn't feel excessive, and I might be feeling more of that because I have "custom" solid engine mounts, all steel with no bushing. Eventually I will be looking for about a 2500 stall convertor that will be zero balanced, but it's not in the budget right now.
You caught me. I did mean .05 lol. Well now if I am running what I have I do need a new torque converter. So then I assume me factory harmonic balancer is OK? I promise to get pics up tomorrow. Unless you guys think it will be OK with the one for a forged crank. I'm still a little new to this game but I'm always ready to learn from you guys. Thanks again. -Billy
What he said!You said you have a 68 HP block so build that one while you drive it.
rbdart
Well-Known Member
Looks good...got alot of potential....
I hope you're not talking about my wife Lol. So last night I de-burred the entire block. Inside and out. Looks like there was still casting sand left by the 4th cam bearing. Weird. I've never seen that before. Did not take a picture though. Stupid me. Now today we will wash the block and bag it. Then new bearings and we should be on our way lol. I'm trying to get enough pics to post in a build thread. Thanks guys. -Billy
rbdart
Well-Known Member
Nope,not talking about her,I'm old enuff to be her grandpa,and I got one [wife] of my own that I just now got the bugs worked out and running right...lol...and she will prob kick my *** when she reads this...lmao......now wheres the pics of the top of the pistons?
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