440 overheating at idle
- Thread starter RonsSwinger
- Start date
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With the deep fan setup you can try running without the shroud.
In that configuration the shroud can be blocking more air flow than it is helping.
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In that configuration the shroud can be blocking more air flow than it is helping.
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Kendog 170
Let the boy go !
You have a better radiator and taller than mine. I have a homemade shroud tiny 16" piece of crap fan and it still does ok. My blades still need to come out some more but I'm going to enlarge my opening to fit a bigger fan and get an 1" thinner spacer.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
It won't.
Itll just idle bad.
Does fuel cool once the blades tip, sure, but at idle.. a lean mix isnt gonna cause 220... timing hat's not advanced enough can.. a fan not big enough can... a water pump that doesnt move enough volume can....as well as a list of other things that point more to a serious problem.
The whole vapor lock heat soak crap always astounds me. I've never had that problem. Engines I've seen or heard about experiencing this condition seem to have a few things in common, usually... like tight engine compartment, low compression, less than ideal spark advance/curve, hot steel fuel lines near exh...and already run hot.
The carburetors involved are always edelbrocks/carter and Rochester, be it the mondo jet or thermo bog.
mcodecuda
Senior Member
I hate that aftermarket stuff. I ran a stock A-body 22 A/C radiator and shroud and never ran over 180.
Kendog 170
Let the boy go !
I agree on stock stuff. Not much stock on my hardtop but try to keep my Ragtop as original as I can but not going overboard obsessive.Still have Eddy heads and RPM intake. Old stuff in boxes.
Vamisk
Well-Known Member
Only time i've every had true vapor lock was on an 85 Honda sabre with a V4. The engines one these always ran hot, you could get it almost boiling pulling off a highway in summer, otherwise it always seems to be a symptom of a larger issue.
On another forum a few years ago, a gent who I trust as being accurate & truthful tested fan distances in & out of the shroud. He found little difference in running temperature with the fan half out of the shroud to well within the shroud. These were clutch fans, not toy plastic fans.
Thank you. The original setup was a clutch fan, original rad. I thought the car ran a bit hotter than I was comfortable (looking at the car’s gauge). Over the winter I decided to upgrade the entire system (aftermarket gauge included) and the fan was recommended by the Performance Parts dealer who dealt with a lot of racing applications. I can’t say that I am completely comfortable with a plastic fan (although they said they are good to 8000rpm), but it pulls a ton of air. My plan is to continue to tweak the system to get it where I am comfortable, and then look at a fan change to metal. After all the responses (A-Body brotherhood is awesome) I am focused on fan placement, and timing, and insuring the shroud is completely sealed to the rad to force all air through the fan as the next step. On more than one site from companies that deal with engine cooling they discussed the pros and cons with different fan designs and they advised under no circumstances should you ever use a clutch fan………… that was a surprise to me………. But some of the A-Body brotherhood recommended a clutch fan.
You mention it runs 180° moving. When you come to a stop for a light for example, do you recall how long idling before it hit that 220°? What temps do you normally see at idle and for how long idling to reach generally speaking?
So it runs down the road at 180° with a 180° thermostat (is it a high flow stat?) Ever try a 160° thermostat (high flow) to see what it’ll run down the road at? What if it ran at 170°? (for instance) it may still run at 180° eventually, who knows. Obviously if your 180° stat is high flow and you replace it with a 160° high flow stat the temps will still climb the same amount at idle. Might take a little longer idling to eventually reach 220° might not? It is possible if it runs down the road 10° cooler it might only hit 210° at idle within the same timeframe as in the case of as you mentioned “at one point 220°” and may still climb.
Still not ideal, but certainly not as alarming or concerning. I rule out nothing, experimenting never hurts
It was near 100 degrees outside (I wanted to see the worst case scenario). I would take about 7-10 min to climb to the point of 220, but it was at the point of no return without a drive. I am sure it would keep going up. I have a new 160 thermostat as well to try if my other changes aren’t effective. I learned for sure that my fan is inside the shroud to far, so that is my next change when the new spacer gets here. The specs for the fan said to mount 3/4” from the rad (It is exact 3/4”). Several sources (performance shop as well) suggested mounting the fan 1/2 in and 1/2 out of the shroud. I followed the instructions on the fan. It was a member of the A-Body site that clarified the discrepancy. He advised that you mount 3/4” from the rad as the fan instruction if there is “no shroud” (instructions left that part out). 1/2 in and 1/2 out if using a shroud. Still moving forward…… Ron D
Sorry, that was suppose to be a thumbs up. I agree
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
I was wondering about that. My statement was a hard one to disagree with. Not that I care a whole bunch, but you can go back and change it. Click “remove”
I couldn’t figure out where to remove the x comment, sorry. Just to compliment your comment. I will have the new spacer this week and in preparation I am focusing on the shroud and there will be NO gaps when I am done (we are definitely in the same page). Also I will confirm what my timing is set to see if it needs adjustment. It takes 5-10 min stopped in traffic to hit 220 and would not stop I am sure if I didn’t get moving . It recovers instantly when the car get moving. After that there are no other options for this setup for low idle heating with this lumpy cam. I am determined and won’t compromise on ability to cool. I know an electric fan is the best solution for in traffic cooling (spins full out when engaged). I was hoping to save on the electric fan /shroud expense, because when I started the car ran hotter that I was comfortable with but not extreme.
Click on the remove icon.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
An electric fan is not always the best solution. A fixed mopar 7 blade fan moves tons and tons of air. It’s best to think of the cooling system as an entire package and engineer it as such. All of the parts have to work together for the best results. Just sticking an electric fan (especially the junk parts store variants) on the radiator is not a good solution and usually does more harm than good. If you decide to go the electric route, there are good options, @72bluNblu has beat this horse to death and has come up with an electric fan setup that really works well.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Something else I noticed from your pictures is the distance from the tip of the fan blades to the edge of the shroud. The tighter the clearance here the better a ducted type fan will work. And yours seems to have a lot of clearance.
If I go with an electric fan, I plan to go back to Coldcase (I really like the radiator). They have. Fan / shroud combo for the radiator. The pic of the fan is deceiving, I was nervous it was too tight. The shroud is stock Mopar and the clearance at the top and bottom is only the width of my finger. I think moving the fan and sealing the shroud will do wonders
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