440 power guestimation

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UDUST81

UDUST81

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allright so im still trying to come up with a good 440 build so now i have a "cheap build" instead of my alluminum headed stroker idears.:burnout: ive bought almost nothing and had no machine work done yet so some things are just guesses so here goes

1972 duster
77 440 block bored to whatever
recondition cast crank and rods
new pistons to get to 9 to 1 compression
gasket match ported 452 heads new valve springs
comp cams 21-225-4 xtreme energy- duration (284/296) lift (.507/.51)
edelbrock performer rpm intake
edelbrock 800cfm carb
1 3/4 primary headers
2800 stall
3.91 gears

id hope for 425 to 450 hp and at least 450+ torque
so if anyone thinks i can achieve that goal with these parts or if some slight changes would help id much appreciate it im not looking for much more than 425 really. i also have an edelbrock str 14 i acquired and is for sale but if i dont sell it ive considered using it. (it just looks so darn cool) :supz: does anyone know if that would be too much for this combination or not? id appreciate that too thanks in advance
 
9:1 won't be hard at all with a 440-even with open chamber heads. I'm thinking at least two people on here will take issue with your cam selection, but I bet it would work pretty well-ought to be kinda lopey and make good power with your RPM intake. I'll side with the folks who'd recommend a Holley HP carb of a similar size. Gears should be fine, but I'd think you'll benefit from more stall.

Otherwise, I'm sure you'll make well in excess of 1hp&tq/ci with that build...if not, something is pretty wrong...

I'd stay with the RPM over the STR intake...all this is JMO though...
 
a stock 440 with headers will make 500 lbs/ft easily, head flow, camshaft and big carbs make the horsepower jump up on those babies....
 
Build it. Even if it doesn't reach your power goals it will feel like it has.
 
IQ52 said:
Build it. Even if it doesn't reach your power goals it will feel like it has.
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i was hoping you would chime in! do you think an edelbrock str 14 sould help/hurt this combo? it looks awfully cool but im not sold on it if its gonna make the whole combo run like crap
 
txstang84 said:
Here's some flat tops for you...would easily net over 9:1.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pbp-12498-030/overview/make/dodge

They're about $100 more per set than the Speed Pro forged flat tops, but they're lighter, made of a better alloy, and run a lightweight lower friction ring set.
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cool thanks i was thinking about on of the speed pro rebuild kits but those seem like they might be a little bit better ill consult my machinist and see what he thinks if i ever get off fabo and bring the motor to him!
 
With a stock 452 head, .039" gasket, & a FT piston (with valve relieves) around 0.010" below deck you'll be right around 9.6-9.7.1, borderline for pump gas, I'd shoot for 9.5.1, You'll like that XE cam, it is powerful, I ran a 10.91 with that cam in my 451.

I'd say you'll be around 475 Hp & over 500 lb. torque.
 
UDUST81 said:
i was hoping you would chime in! do you think an edelbrock str 14 sould help/hurt this combo? it looks awfully cool but im not sold on it if its gonna make the whole combo run like crap
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I think you should read this thread before you build. The 452 heads will hold you back quite a bit unless they were done by a very good porter.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.0.html

Do you need the str 14 to achieve your goals? See above.

If you think they look cool and that is what you want, put it on.

I just prefer single 4-bbl's and have never personally used a str 14, so to give you a definative answer I cannot. I refuse to guess and give personally unsubstantiated answers. Too many others are really good at that.

See post #5 of this thread.
 
After reading through the thread IQ posted, it only solidifies the reasoning behind running a solid cam-especially for a performance purposed engine. Yes, it mandates the use of adjustable valvetrain, but time and again, I read the stuff he and many like him post and it's easy to determine a solid cam is the way to go for BB Mopars if you want solid performance (pun intended).

Good quote there poison
 
well main thing is with the 452s is that i have them and they apear in decent shape but will probably need some work ill ask my builder what he thinks if its gonna cost close to what the aluminum ones cost then ill consider those. same thing with the str vs the edelbrock performer and an 800 cfm carb. i have the str 14 with the carbs if i dont sell it then it costs nothing but an a$$ ton of gas to use vs the edelbrock carb and intake whichll costs me $600 plus.
hell i got the entire core with rotating assembly 452 heads and the str intake for $800 http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=268308
my goal was to sell the intake to get my money back plus a little extra to spend on parts but so far no offers. its kinda a run what ya brung kinda deal im trying to put together. big block duster on a budget (lol) and yeah itll probably never get dynoed so the number isnt a big deal. i just want a car i can have ridiculous amounts of fun in as all. just a lightly worked over 440 that i can whoop on some hondas with! lol
 
If you're not truly all that concerned about the power number then just build it with some quality parts, and enjoy it. A decently built 440 will move your Duster quite well...even with your 452 heads. But like the thread IQ referred to in his post it could have a rather marked affect on your power output compared to aluminum heads. I spoke with another member on the threads, and he said the difference between a mildly ported set of iron heads vs an unported but prepped set of aluminum heads could be as much as 60 hp.
 
txstang84 said:
If you're not truly all that concerned about the power number then just build it with some quality parts, and enjoy it. A decently built 440 will move your Duster quite well...even with your 452 heads. But like the thread IQ referred to in his post it could have a rather marked affect on your power output compared to aluminum heads. I spoke with another member on the threads, and he said the difference between a mildly ported set of iron heads vs an unported but prepped set of aluminum heads could be as much as 60 hp.
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spend some money on your heads! look at chevy head flow numbers, and u can see how bad 440 heads really are. chrysler really screwed up by not designing better heads for this motor, they could have had a rat killer w/ better head design. their are guys that can wake them up fairly well, but they won`t even compare w/ a decent set of alum. heads, which still should be looked at real close before install.-just my 2 centavos---bob
 
famous bob said:
spend some money on your heads! look at chevy head flow numbers, and u can see how bad 440 heads really are. chrysler really screwed up by not designing better heads for this motor, they could have had a rat killer w/ better head design. their are guys that can wake them up fairly well, but they won`t even compare w/ a decent set of alum. heads, which still should be looked at real close before install.-just my 2 centavos---bob
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I never said iron heads were great out of the box, I'm just agreeing with statements made above that he could build the 440 even with 452 heads and still enjoy it in his Duster.
 
UDUST - Throw that -14 on Ebay, and take what you can get. IQ others are right, just build what you have. Just a thought, the 440 will build power enough to whoop Honda's, Fords etc. The work and edge will come from the chassis and everything else, motor is only part of the equation.

My thoughts - put a mechanical in with adjustable valve train. If you don't do it now going to cost more down the road if. 452's, some match porting, great combination.

What convertor are you going with?
 
i know i could make more power out of aluminum heads i think everyone who looked on the internet for 10 minutes knows that. for a 425 hp or so motor do i them is what im asking. those heads are a $1000+ that i could spend on something else chassis wise or transmission rear end etc. adjustable valvetrain is more money too. and the solid cam deal im not gonna do i just dont want to i dont think i need a solid cam to make the power i want. at the end of the day i know i could spend more and go faster im not trying to spend 8k on this motor and im not gonna throw money at the problem like so many others do. if we all had unlimited money to build the motor of our dreams wed all have aluminum heads aftermarket blocks massive strokers 650 solid roller cams 1.7 ratio rockers 16 to 1 compression running on race gas with a bagillion horsepower. im not that guy i make an average wage and takes a long time to save up the money. and btw i dont need a 440 to whoop on some hondas the worn out 318 that blows blue smoke out of the tailpipe whooped on them all over the place.
 
i just want a car i can have ridiculous amounts of fun in as all. just a lightly worked over 440 that i can whoop on some hondas with! lol
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You're the one who made the whooping Hondas comment initially...some here are just repeating your words. Anyway, why not focus on those other things you know you'll need to handle even a mild 440, first? Or have you already started that?
 
I say do a low cost rebuild like what your talking about. If it doesn't make enough power for ya you can always swap the heads later down the road .
 
i have subframe connectors welded in i have an 8 3/4 ready to be assembled and the 727 will be bought when 440 is complete i guess what im really saying is if anyones run a combo similar to mine id like to hear what kinda power they made and if they were happy with it. i said id take suggestions for slight changes like maybe a different manufactures cam of a similar profile. i didnt really want to spend a nother ton of money on alluminum heads and adjustable rockers the whole ordeal is expensive enough and the honda thing was a joke hence the "lol"
 
UDUST - I did a .30 over with KB quench hypers, 906's and a .484 cam. Motor on the dyno made 425 HP. Mopar M1, stock style rockers. So it can be done, I believe that is what IQ stated on his initial post. The heads had no port work, just 2.14 and big exhaust valves. I decked, balanced it before running it.

Later I broke one of the pistons (hyper) from detonation. I personally will never use hypers again. That is my preference. I purchased forged icons - I believe these are the ones:
http://www.summitracing.com/nv/parts/uem-ic9953-030/overview/make/dodge

You can get them for a better price, look around. I paid half that brand new.

My recommendation on adjustable rockers is the Isky's or Crane ductile type. I run those now on my car, they are very reliable and adjustable. You usually can find them for about $250 to $300 extra, but worth it.
 
dbphemi said:
I say do a low cost rebuild like what your talking about. If it doesn't make enough power for ya you can always swap the heads later down the road .
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yeah thats kinda what i was thinking about they didnt have aftermarket alluminum heads back in the day and im sure they still got 440s over 425 hp pretty easily
 
i guess what im really saying is if anyones run a combo similar to mine id like to hear what kinda power they made and if they were happy with it.
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Have you been reading up on some of the 440 builds here in the threads or the ones IQ has mentioned/posted here and elsewhere?

Since it's your car, what will make you happy? HP? ETs? Handling? Reliability?
 
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