71 duster front end help

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Fisher

Fisher

Old Guy with a Cool car.
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Ok i rebuilt the entire front brakes and suspension on my duster using a disc brake conversion kit from Dr Diff/ The right stuff detailing. I bought all new upper control arm assembly from him as well. The steering center link and box are factory, the idler arm, pitman arm, and inner / outer tie rod ends plus sleeves are Moog.

I marked everything as i took it off, the problem i am having is the 2 tie rod assemblies are not the same length now? the stock ones were 12.5" grease nipple to grease nipple. When i try to set the new assemblies up that way, the drivers side it good but the pass side needs to be 13.5" long in order to get the rotor straight.

I made sure the master spline on the steering box and coupler were lined up. there is no way it would go on any other way. When i turn the steering wheel inside the car, it goes aprox 1/2" more to the drivers side than the pass side. Should i try to center the box to make the tie rods even, then pull the steering wheel and re line it up? Any help would be great.
 
Are you trying to do this with or without the tires on the ground and weight on the car?

Did you set the ride height?

And you MUST "jostle" the front suspension to settle it

Do NOT center the wheel by moving it. The box has a "high spot" and is designed to "run" straight that way Isn't the wheel "keyed" by a master spline?

A side note---if you had the steering shaft coupler apart, you can get it 1/2 turn off, so the wheel will be pointing "down" instead of "up"
 
I put masking tape on the dash and on the steering wheel, and turned it back and forth. Its not the same there is a bit of a difference. So i am thinking i will try to center the box then even the tie rods and pull the steering wheel and see what that does? The car was in 2 accidents, wo someone may have tried to correct things the wrong way. Now with new parts things are different.
 
The box and coupler only have one master spline, the steering wheel is pointing the correct way.
 
Regardless, the tie rod assemblies should be the same length i am thinking? Wether the car is at ride height should not make a difference.Both rotors should be pointing straight.
 
I would not worry about it until you get it on the ground "on weight" and rough in the alignment a bit.

What is the front end combo?

That is..........what year K member?

What year center link, IE it been converted to "large spline" 73/ later?

Is there ANY chance the box is loose on the K?

I have to tell you the absolute truth......I've never bothered to measure whether my tie rod assemblies were both the same length !!!!!
 
I dont think the issue is in the box as the master spline is top dead centre, and at the top not the bottom. and the steering wheel is straight there.

Everything is factory stock 71- 6 cylinder duster. I have the K member torqued square to the frame, the steering box is torqued to the K member.
 
Did you center the steering box before installing the pitman arm?
 
I didnt install the pitman arm, the local machine shop did, i am sure its correct, the old one had 4 master splines on it so it would be pretty well out to lunch if it wasnt on right i would suspect?
 
Turn the steering wheel from one side to the other and see where the pitman arm lines up. In mid range, the pitman arm should be facing rearward.

Sometimes there are 4 wider slots 90° apart and you can get them one "quadrant" off...
 
Try centering the steering wheel. Turn it to the right counting the number of turns to lock, go back to center and go to left lock counting the number of turns. Same both ways?
 
Bad sport it isnt the same. I have pieces of tape on the dash and on the wheel to line things up. The wheel turns farther to the drivers side than the passenger.

Is it possible to center the steering by eyeballing it up between the 2 torsion bars? or just by turning the wheel back and forth again? Also does a 71 duster have a master spline on the steering wheel?
 
Fisher said:
Bad sport it isnt the same. I have pieces of tape on the dash and on the wheel to line things up. The wheel turns farther to the drivers side than the passenger.

As in more turns?
Click to expand...

If so, Karl may have nailed it.
 
Damn it i am ready to pull my hair out. Ok how the **** do you find centre of this steering box? i split the difference made made both tie rods 13-1/4 nipple to nipple centered the box on that. not i have less turns lock to lock each way? i have 2 turns now each way from centre to lock as opposed to 2.5
 
You are over-thinking this. I already gave you the answer

1...The steering box and pitman are keyed, unless someone ground off the "key" spline. This means the pitman CANNOT POSSIBLY be installed incorrectly.

2...The steering coupler can be assembled 1/2 turn off. I'm talking about the column shaft and "shoes" going into the top of the coupler housing.

This will put the steering wheel upside down, if the wheel is correct, see 3 below. The coupler is keyed to the box spline unless someone ground the key off the coupler spline. Doubtful

3...The steering wheel and shaft are originally keyed unless you are using (some) aftermarket wheel, or unless someone has ground THAT spline off See 2 above

4...Unhook the tie rod ends. Count turns lock to lock on the BOX, not limited by the front suspension. Center the thing based on that count. THE WHEEL MIGHT BE some off, 1/4 turn or so. If it's 1/2 turn off, might be 3 and 2 above. Get this resolved at this point. you should be able to SEE the column spline with horn button off, and if it's 1/2 turn off, fix it by pulling the coupler apart and reversing the shaft in the coupler

In other words check the wheel to column and make sure it's splined correctly. Check the coupler to box splines.. THEN if the wheel is 1/2 turn off, fix the column shaft to coupler

5....Assemble the front end and get it ON THE GROUND with WEIGHT and with engine, etc, installed.

By now you should have.......

The box centered, the steering coupler fixed if need be, and the wheel oriented on the shaft if need be Point the wheel straight ahead and set the ride height and "jounce" the car

Then rough in the toe. You will have to set the toe, drive it, and then correct the wheel for 'straight ahead" by 'walking" the tie rod adjustments equally from one side to the other, unless you have a "fancy" alignment rack.

THINGS THAT MIGHT

Bent from damage, rust, whatever

Incorrect bolts / incorrect install in and around the lower balls and spindle hardware They can hit the lower arm and limit travel.
 
Got it all back together on a set of ramps on the front tires. one tie rod is now 13" the other 13.5" i have no idea what you mean by Shoe? All i know is the steering box is splined correctly centered as best i can with the master spline pointing up on the steering box coupler. I pulled the nut off the steering wheel and looked, there is no master spline on the steering wheel. The wheels are straight the steering wheel is straight. the tie rods are un equal length. **** it it can stay that way.
 
LOL. Well I would not think 1/2 is the end of the world. There IS (was) a spline on the wheel and shaft, originally.

So to sum this up.........

If the wheel is correctly aligned to the shaft (via the "should be there" spline)

If the coupler is assembled correctly (the wheel will be 1/2 turn off, bottom pointing up if wrong)

If the shaft has not been hacked / cut / welded etc

If the coupler / box has not been modified IE if the coupler is correctly keyed to the master spline

Then it is right.

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l would take one more run at the wheel. Get a puller and pull it if you have to, but it was there originally.

Then just "walk" the tie rod adjusts so that toe is where you want and so the wheel is centered

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"Shoes" I was referring to the pieces inside the coupler

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If someone had that apart the shaft can be 1/2 turn off from what it should be

Now on my own car I can't guarantee that "things" were exactly centered when done.......I knew my wheel was splined correctly, everything else ditto, so once I had the toe "roughed it" close I drove it around a bit. On concrete (level) and crowned asphault roads for a few miles. I "noted" how far the wheel "liked" off center, then went home and "walked it over with the tie rods, and finally, "fine checked" the toe, and that was it.
 
This car only has 20,000 miles on it and from the looks of things the steering wheel has never been off. So from what i can see there is no master spline on the steering wheel itself. I see what your saying about the coupler. I was very cautious when i assembled it all to watch for master splines on everything. The coupler is facing master spline up with dowel pin hole to the top as well.
 
Something still doesnt look right. I started to think about this, and the two things that could cause this are the pitman arm not being the same contour, and the disc brake conversion. The new spindles and lower ball joints could be out as well. Going to get a puller and pop the new moog pitman arm off and compare it to the old one and make some measurements on the spindles.
 
Fisher,
You too focused on nipple lengths. On mammals, nipples are all over the place and vary with temperature. The guys are giving you good advice. Check wheel and box center as suggested, not limited by tie rods. Height, caster and camber all can change tie rod length relationships. If those are off significantly, tie rod length will seem off.
 
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