727 help

[downsr]

Just had trans rebuilt.It is a 727 with a turbo action 3000-3500 stall. In auto driving normal 1 to 2 shifts quickly can barely tell it shifted 2to 3 is fine.When i manually shift from 1 to 2 at lets say 1500 rpm it feels like you hit the brakes then goes on. 2 to 3 manually shift is fine.Can not talk to trans guy to monday any ideas.

 

[TrailBeast]

That's called a 1-2 bindup and is where 2nd applies before 1st lets go.
It's actually common for them to do it when manual shifting without a restrictor plug in the accumulator port like the Transgo shift kits show to do if the trans is going to be shifted manually and has had it's flow ports opened up for firmer shifts.

For this problem you can try backing off the front band another full turn and see how it acts. (it just makes the second gear band take longer to come on)
hopefully giving time for 1st to let go.
If it starts skipping second all together and shifting from 1-3 it's too loose.

The early 1-2 shift is pretty normal for a stock trans also, and there are a couple of things that can be done there.
Another governor or an added stronger spring in the existing governor. (that mod can be found online) and is also part of some of the shift kits instructions.
The governor weights can also be lightened to fix that early shifting.
A replacement governor made for later shifting also available online (Google search should find that)

Or you can do what I did with my stocker 904 with stock linkage that worked well. www.letsgocomputers.com/shifts.htm
This works pretty good for no more than it takes to do it.

 

[downsr]

That's called a 1-2 bindup and is where 2nd applies before 1st lets go.
It's actually common for them to do it when manual shifting without a restrictor plug in the accumulator port like the Transgo shift kits show to do if the trans is going to be shifted manually and has had it's flow ports opened up for firmer shifts.

For this problem you can try backing off the front band another full turn and see how it acts. (it just makes the second gear band take longer to come on)
hopefully giving time for 1st to let go.
If it starts skipping second all together and shifting from 1-3 it's too loose.

The early 1-2 shift is pretty normal for a stock trans also, and there are a couple of things that can be done there.
Another governor or an added stronger spring in the existing governor. (that mod can be found online) and is also part of some of the shift kits instructions.
The governor weights can also be lightened to fix that early shifting.
A replacement governor made for later shifting also available online (Google search should find that)

Or you can do what I did with my stocker 904 with stock linkage that worked well. www.letsgocomputers.com/shifts.htm
This works pretty good for no more than it takes to do it.

The guy that did the trans put a b&m 10225 shift improver kit in it.The instructions say tighten to 72 inch pounds turn out 2 turns.I can adjust the band pretty easily.I have a bouchillon cable set up and have adjusted it at wide open throttle and the trans cable all the way back.I have not tried to adjust it any differently.If it is any more than a band or pressure adjustment i will let them do it.I read somewhere it might be the rear band adjustment but i do'nt see anything about that in there instructions.Thanks for your help

 

[downsr]

The guy that did the trans put a b&m 10225 shift improver kit in it.The instructions say tighten to 72 inch pounds turn out 2 turns.I can adjust the band pretty easily.I have a bouchillon cable set up and have adjusted it at wide open throttle and the trans cable all the way back.I have not tried to adjust it any differently.If it is any more than a band or pressure adjustment i will let them do it.I read somewhere it might be the rear band adjustment but i do'nt see anything about that in there instructions.Thanks for your help

bump

 

[TrailBeast]

Well, the rear band is also involved but it's applied already so only speeding the release of it could help.
Problem is there is no provision for speeding the release per se, but only to delay the apply of the front band to give the rear one a longer time to let go.
Did you back the front one off a turn yet?

 

[downsr]

Well, the rear band is also involved but it's applied already so only speeding the release of it could help.
Problem is there is no provision for speeding the release per se, but only to delay the apply of the front band to give the rear one a longer time to let go.
Did you back the front one off a turn yet?

I did back it off 1/2 a turn and it seemed to help.I am not going to adjust it anymore till i talk to the trans guy.I think if i do go another half turn it may be okay.Just want to make sure i run it by him first.I also adjusted the cable but it did not help so i put it back where it was.Thanks

 

[TrailBeast]

I did back it off 1/2 a turn and it seemed to help.I am not going to adjust it anymore till i talk to the trans guy.I think if i do go another half turn it may be okay.Just want to make sure i run it by him first.I also adjusted the cable but it did not help so i put it back where it was.Thanks

Actually it is technically up to him to fix it.
The problem is does he know how?

You might look into the Transgo TF2 kit instructions and see what the recommendation is on the orifice plug.
Basically it just limits the speed at which the fluid is allowed to enter and apply the second gear/ band servo.
My trans has the orifice plug in there but it will snap you back in the seat on the shift with no gap between the shifts just in case you start thinking about slowing the fluid causing delays or lazy shifts.
It doesn't work like that.

 

[KickDown]

Sorry TB. Can I just query your last post? With regards to the reduction orifice in your photo above, I think you will find that it is placed in the channel for the direct/reverse clutch to delay the application of the clutch, thus avoiding a 2-3 overlap. The OPs symptom of overlap on the 1-2 shift only happens when shifting manually from 1-2. I dont need to tell you that the only difference in manual 1st as opposed to D 1st is that the rear band is applied, which leads me to think that on his 1-2 manual upshift, the intermediate band is applied before the low/reverse band has fully released, causing the overlap. In the A&A catalogue there is a billet rear servo piston assembly with a much stronger piston return spring which may help the overlap issue. No smartass comment intended.

 

[TrailBeast]

Sorry TB. Can I just query your last post? With regards to the reduction orifice in your photo above, I think you will find that it is placed in the channel for the direct/reverse clutch to delay the application of the clutch, thus avoiding a 2-3 overlap. The OPs symptom of overlap on the 1-2 shift only happens when shifting manually from 1-2. I dont need to tell you that the only difference in manual 1st as opposed to D 1st is that the rear band is applied, which leads me to think that on his 1-2 manual upshift, the intermediate band is applied before the low/reverse band has fully released, causing the overlap. In the A&A catalogue there is a billet rear servo piston assembly with a much stronger piston return spring which may help the overlap issue. No smartass comment intended.

Yea sorry about that as I just grabbed a quick picture to show a plug and didn't pay any attention to where it was.
The stronger return in the rear servo may very well do it, but we also have to remember that on an apply of a band or clutch it's only the very last little bit of it's travel that matters to the apply, and the very first little bit of it's travel matters on the release.
It may very well take a little of both to do it.

 

[downsr]

Yea sorry about that as I just grabbed a quick picture to show a plug and didn't pay any attention to where it was.
The stronger return in the rear servo may very well do it, but we also have to remember that on an apply of a band or clutch it's only the very last little bit of it's travel that matters to the apply, and the very first little bit of it's travel matters on the release.
It may very well take a little of both to do it.

I replaced the valve body they put a b&m shift enhancer kit in.I had a turbo action cheetah valve body so i put it back in .Also readjusted the bands per cheetah instructions.He is willing to check it out but i do not want to leave my car with anyone .I took the trans to him and reinstalled it.Let everyone know how it turns out

 

[downsr]

Replacing the valve body did the trick.Shifts great and the turbo action converter really made a difference in performance.Thanks