904 Accumulator Spring

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70aarcuda said:
depends...

all the trans have the rod in the accumulator....one time I forgot to put the accumulator back in...and I called Joe at Tranzact...he told me with his brake I could hang the accumulator on the rear view mirror if I wanted too...

so I dropped the valve body and put it back in...LOL...Old habits are hard to break...

with Turbo ACtion valve body..I follow their instruction..and use the blocker rod and put the accumulator back in...
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That's funny cause I did call and ask him and he said the accumulator don't matter. So I said stock goes back in then? He said yup.

The VB that came out of the car has the blocker rod. I'm gunna rebuild that Trans in the next few weeks since it has the low gear set. I will probably do a T Brake VB in that one.
 
Yeah..finally putting the spare trans back together...got the front clutch pac done this morning.....just need to put the clutch pacs and pump back in the case...
 
Bakerlite said:
Put the accumulator spring back in. The damage it can cause from removing it far outweighs any benefit.

This is what John Kunkel wrote about this subject:
"The purpose of that spring is to cushion the shock of the forward clutch application. Many people remove it thinking it improves upshifts but all it does is put extra strain on the forward clutch parts"

Oldest myth in the Mopar world....the spring has no affect on any upshifts
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I've known John for several yrs. and he is a very knowledgeable trans. man and while he is right it does cushion the application of the clutches and front band (you never said that but it's what gives you 2nd gear so it applies to what we're talking about) he is wrong when he says it is has no affect on any upshifts. I have proved it personally so I know by experience, not just hearsay. And if you or he says I'm wrong answer me this, why did Mopar Perf. for years (going all the way back to when they were Direct Connection) sell a shift improver kit that consisted of nothing but a blocker rod that you installed under the accumulator in place of the spring?

Blocking the accumulator does cause slightly harsher clutch engagement and if your running a stock torque converter I don't usually recommend it. If your running a high stall converter (generally anything over 23-2400 rpm) it cushions the engagement enough that you'd never know the accumulator was blocked.
 
Well from what I can tell, removing it makes no measurable difference, so why would you then? Why not leave it there to do it's job and why risk damage to the belleville spring.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1562069
Check out the top right hand of instruction page 14, Transgo tell you to put it back in. That's good enough for me.
 
fishy68 said:
And if you or he says I'm wrong answer me this, why did Mopar Perf. for years (going all the way back to when they were Direct Connection) sell a shift improver kit that consisted of nothing but a blocker rod that you installed under the accumulator in place of the spring?
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Well, if you know John so well then why not ask him, maybe he can enlighten us. I've got no idea why MP would do that. Maybe they just thought it was a good idea at the time :)
 
fishy68 said:
I've known John for several yrs. and he is a very knowledgeable trans. man and while he is right it does cushion the application of the clutches and front band (you never said that but it's what gives you 2nd gear so it applies to what we're talking about) he is wrong when he says it is has no affect on any upshifts. I have proved it personally so I know by experience, not just hearsay. And if you or he says I'm wrong answer me this, why did Mopar Perf. for years (going all the way back to when they were Direct Connection) sell a shift improver kit that consisted of nothing but a blocker rod that you installed under the accumulator in place of the spring?

Blocking the accumulator does cause slightly harsher clutch engagement and if your running a stock torque converter I don't usually recommend it. If your running a high stall converter (generally anything over 23-2400 rpm) it cushions the engagement enough that you'd never know the accumulator was blocked.
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Would you say that clutch pack clearances on set up may also have an effect on how it shifts? How about parts used like reds vs stock fibers or a 24 Spring return module or kevlar bands etc? The reason I ask is on the one I just rebuilt I used a 24 spring module, reds and I used 5 clutches in the front drum. I set the clearances on the front drum at ,071 and the rear came in at .035 and Kevlar bands. Stall is 38-4200 with a transact RMVB & low band apply. The 2-3 shift is incredible with this set up, 3rd too hit hard enough that yesterday on full acceleration it got a a pretty long roast, I was in shock. Of course this is on the street where traction is limited.
 
Anyone that says removing the spring and blocking the accumulator does not make any difference is seriously lacking in thier understanding.
Even on disengagement the spring makes a difference as it takes a lot longer for full disengagement of the clutches as the spring backs off. (Causing a little slipage even on the disengage)
It also obviously takes a lot less time to fully engage if it doesn't have to compress the spring as it applies.
If you want to spare any extra wear on hard parts, like planetary sets and splines and the like then leave the spring in there.
If you don't care about the extra wear and just want the trans to fully engage the next gear quicker, take it out.

Been proven that way for decades.
 
Bakerlite said:
Well, if you know John so well then why not ask him, maybe he can enlighten us. I've got no idea why MP would do that. Maybe they just thought it was a good idea at the time :)
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Cause you were the one who brought his name into this. So we're askin you.
 
TrailBeast said:
Anyone that says removing the spring and blocking the accumulator does not make any difference is seriously lacking in thier understanding.
Even on disengagement the spring makes a difference as it takes a lot longer for full disengagement of the clutches as the spring backs off. (Causing a little slipage even on the disengage)
It also obviously takes a lot less time to fully engage if it doesn't have to compress the spring as it applies.
If you want to spare any extra wear on hard parts, like planetary sets and splines and the like then leave the spring in there.
If you don't care about the extra wear and just want the trans to fully engage the next gear quicker, take it out.

Been proven that way for decades.
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This ^^^^^^^^
 
I have kick down now, adjusted pressure regulator vale three turns counter clock wise, still got flair up on 2 3 shift its not as bad as it was tho. Thanks all the the help, I've learned a lot on this site.
 
Sounds like the high gear clutches are on the way out.
 
mopar madness said:
That's for sure, Is this 904 worth rebuilding? 28920808A2796
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YES! Any 904 can be built/rebuilt to handle more than enough power than most will throw at them! I just did one myself for the first time and it works perfect. These transmissions are so easy to do it is nutzzzz. I got my second one tore apart and it will be going back together here in the next few weeks.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Cause you were the one who brought his name into this. So we're askin you.
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No it's not "we're" who's asking... it's "you" who are asking me.
He knows John, so I'm asking him not you... How about you try keeping your trap shut when your not being spoken too. Of course if that's at all possible.
With 14,586 in 3 years I think that request may be a tall order. Know what I'm sayin?
 
TrailBeast said:
Anyone that says removing the spring and blocking the accumulator does not make any difference is seriously lacking in thier understanding.
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Ok, so why would a guy with over 45 years or experiance with these transmissions be saying to leave it in. And why would a company like Transgo also tell you to leave it in? Are you telling me they both lack in their understanding of this trans?

TrailBeast said:
If you want to spare any extra wear on hard parts, like planetary sets and splines and the like then leave the spring in there.
If you don't care about the extra wear and just want the trans to fully engage the next gear quicker, take it out.

Been proven that way for decades.
Click to expand...
So for the OP being a street application, it would be prudent to put the spring back in like I suggested?
 
Bakerlite said:
Ok, so why would a guy with over 45 years or experiance with these transmissions be saying to leave it in. And why would a company like Transgo also tell you to leave it in? Are you telling me they both lack in their understanding of this trans?

So for the OP being a street application, it would be prudent to put the spring back in like I suggested?
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Don't know about your friend, but Transgo used to recommend blocking it for hard street use or racing.
So a person that wasn't around them long enough to know or remember that has a hard time convincing me that his buddy might be right. Sorry

There is a lot of leeway in "street" because I know people that run 500 or more horses on the street and burn tires for 2 blocks. :)
I would say for a general all around street cruiser, you could leave it in and it would'nt make much difference.

The statement was that it made no difference, and that is simply not true.
A lot of people also have no idea that it promotes increased clutch material wear from letting things slip as it releases the pressure on the clutches and band.
No spring releases faster as well as applying faster.
 
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