a727 lines

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grassy

grassy

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I am just to the point where I am thinking about running the trans cooling lines.

My main concerns are about making it work vs pretty. The exhaust is close to the 727 and the headers take up a bunch of room in the engine compartment. Bending a line to navigate that maze will be ugly.

I have read that you can use copper gas line but I really wonder about that...steel or rubber sounds more logical.

I was thinking about starting off with steel line on either end but continue with hose from trans to cooler...flaring and double clamping the line so it will not blow off or leak.

What size line should I use - 3/8ths or is there a better way to do this ?

Can you buy pre made that fit in nice and easy ( does anything ?) ?

Thanks
ian.
 
Even if you could get prebent lines, I don't see how a person would get them in there.
I'm kinda in the same boat as you (headers and stuff in the way) and have pretty much decided to have them made with hydraulic style rubber lines and fittings.
I don't like clamping a rubber hose over a steel line because the ALWAYS end up leaking at some point.
It would work ok if you flared it and double clamped it as you said, but even then it will eventually start seeping fluid.
I can only trust full steel, or full hydraulic hose and fittings. (not a combination)
 
Trailbeast,

For the hydraulic lines, is that something you have made to a certain length or something you can fiddle with (cut) to get the right placement under the car ?

Thanks
Ian.
 
I just put new pre-bent cooler lines into a 360 Dart w/headers,, it took some patience, and twisting,, but they went in, fit well after installation, and look great..

I was kinda surprised by the result.. ps, they were stainless,, and stiff, (read biatch), I'd prefer reg tube next time... and make sure to support them properly.. I was replacing a leaking, rubbed-thru set..
 
Trailbeast,

I just found an excellent tutorial on just that....making your own, custom length hydraulic hoses.

The only think I could see that could make this better is that the attachments coming out of the trans would be a 90 degree to save trying to bend the rubber hose around..

http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/hydraulics/1473-home-made-hydraulic-hoses-how-tutorial.html


I just happen to have a farm supply store near me... I will go there later this week.

Just to confirm, the fitting sizes are 1/8" NPT and #6 AN ?

Thanks
Ian.
 
grassy said:
Trailbeast,

For the hydraulic lines, is that something you have made to a certain length or something you can fiddle with (cut) to get the right placement under the car ?

Thanks
Ian.
Click to expand...

The way I would do it is get the line and determin routing first.
Then take the lines down and have the ends crimped on.



inertia said:
I just put new pre-bent cooler lines into a 360 Dart w/headers,, it took some patience, and twisting,, but they went in, fit well after installation, and look great..

I was kinda surprised by the result.. ps, they were stainless,, and stiff, (read biatch), I'd prefer reg tube next time...
Click to expand...

That is surprising that they went in ok, because it sure doesn't look like they would be anywhere near the same after getting them in there.
 
That is surprising that they went in ok said:
Well, when I first saw them,, I was scratching my head,,, but I love a challenge,, I had to unbend it some, and being stainless, it didn't want to co-operate,, I swore a few times,, but managed to get them in..

I wouldn't do stainless again, by choice.. but having said that; that's prob why I didn't get anywhere near a kink,, softer may have kinked...
Click to expand...
 
"Fragola" braided lines with bulkheads. The best to use no failures. all connections available
 

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How do you determine the length ?...yours are very pretty but that usually translates to $s... If the kid wants to have this look after he is on his own and on his nickle :)

Man, there are so many places to spend money....

ian.
 
you make them up yourself very easy no special tools. Cut off wheel , Masking tape and some wrenches.Use #6 hose about 7 ft and you'll have extra . 4 female hose ends and 4 1/8 nipples to #4 flare unions. Cheaper and easier than anything else Won't burn , kink, or Get cut. I will never use anything else with headers.
 
Fragola Catalogue

[ame="http://fragolaperformancesystems.com/downloads/Fragola%202011-12%20catalog.pdf"]http://fragolaperformancesystems.com/downloads/Fragola%202011-12%20catalog.pdf[/ame]
 
grassy said:
Trailbeast,

I just found an excellent tutorial on just that....making your own, custom length hydraulic hoses.

The only think I could see that could make this better is that the attachments coming out of the trans would be a 90 degree to save trying to bend the rubber hose around..

http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/hydraulics/1473-home-made-hydraulic-hoses-how-tutorial.html


I just happen to have a farm supply store near me... I will go there later this week.

Just to confirm, the fitting sizes are 1/8" NPT and #6 AN ?

Thanks
Ian.
Click to expand...

Yes, 1/8 NPT but not sure about the AN
I used to have to have hoses made for some of the equipment we repaired, like ditch diggers, backhoe's and fork lifts.
That's when I actually found out about what all they could make on site.
I am going to chk into this AN style stuff, but I'd bet a standard hydraulic line is going to cost a lot less and I don't need pretty, I only need reliable.

Personally, I would want straight out fittings at the trans because I want to run the lines out to the inside of my subframe connectors and then forward.
I would want 90's at the radiator.
 
I always used steel brake lines. They are cheap at local parts stores, easy to bend, and you can get adapter fittings to thread them into the trans and radiator.
 
TrailBeast said:
Personally, I would want straight out fittings at the trans because I want to run the lines out to the inside of my subframe connectors and then forward. I would want 90's at the radiator.
Click to expand...

I was thinking flush to the transmission..make a fitting at the oil pan to hold them together ..then over the k-frame and in OR

my friend , with his '69 GTO has them flush up the side of his trans..on his bulkhead then into the passenger fender..then out and down..

If you went straight out, you would be going over your exhaust, correct ?

A random thought about the steel lines...wouldn't they eventually fatigue due to movement ?

Ian.
 
I ran braided hoses with -AN fitting from aux cooler to 727 on my '65 coronet. Very easy, looked good. If i remember it cost me around $160 for everything.
 
grassy said:
I was thinking flush to the transmission..make a fitting at the oil pan to hold them together ..then over the k-frame and in OR

my friend , with his '69 GTO has them flush up the side of his trans..on his bulkhead then into the passenger fender..then out and down..

If you went straight out, you would be going over your exhaust, correct ?

A random thought about the steel lines...wouldn't they eventually fatigue due to movement ?

Ian.
Click to expand...

My lines would go over the exhaust, but I could deal with that a lot better than following headers up.

And you are right about steel lines, but to if you stabilize them so they don't move or rub against each other you are looking at a lifetime fix.

Rubber lines are actually not as reliable, but hydraulic lines that normally carry hundreds of pounds of pressure I could trust to handle trans pump pressure for a good long stretch.




65-440 said:
I ran braided hoses with -AN fitting from aux cooler to 727 on my '65 coronet. Very easy, looked good. If i remember it cost me around $160 for everything.
Click to expand...

That's not too bad for what you ended up with, and I would think that by the time you messed with all the fittings and stuff for standard hydraulic stuff you might be into it that much anyway.

Food for thought.
 
I just bend mine out of malleable bundy tube when I'm building the car. I flare the ends with the correct fittings. Plenty of factory cars , still with their original steel lines.
 
Here's what I ran for tranny lines, hydraulic hose with a heat shield over it. Worked really good.
 

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I will have to crawl back under the car and look for free real estate. I am hoping I don't have to disconnect the exhaust to get to the two openings. It is getting quite crowded under these and I have to install the intermediate parking brake cable soon.

I am not sure what the pressure is on these lines but 5000 psi ...assuming this isn't a typo.. seems to be a bit excessive.

I can get to the farm machinery dealer ...who knows, they may be less expensive that NAPA ...on Friday. I have dealt with them before and then to be quite direct. I like that.

I will post after my visit with them. After the purchase of the seats and the kick down cable, our budget is getting skinnier :) The nice thing is that we can make do now and revisit when funds free up. daughter heading back to university this weekend which means $$$$ :)

I appreciate the help.

Ian.
 
I think you will find that the cooler line pressure is under 40 psi. At a guess, I'd say it's more like 20PSi, It is not under actual transmission hydraulic line pressure.
 
Couple of you guys seem unsure on AN, here's the "deal."

In US terms (no metric or British, etc)

there is 37 1/2 degree flare known as AN or in hydraulic usually steel fittings, known as JIC

There is 45 degree flare known as SAE and is the common stuff you find on copper tube, etc. and most automotive stuff. Heavy trucks, might be different.

None of the fittings truely interchange between SAE and AN/ JIC, but some sizes do screw together and some folks "do" interchange them

Two sizes between SAE and AN/ JIC will not interchange, and this is no6, or 3/8, as well as no 12 or 3/4.

There ARE of course other fittings, inverted flare, used on brake lines, etc

The adaptors are available in various stuff, from JIC to JIC, JIC to pipe, JIC to "o ring boss." This is a fitting commonly found in hydraulics which uses a chamfer on the device (cylinder, valve) and the adaptor has an o ring on the shoulder. "O ring boss" is same threads and sizes as JIC

Various hot -rod manufacturers make proprietary special adaptors, such as Holley or other carb adaptors to AN etc.

No6 is the size in 16th of an inch, IE 6/16's or 3/8" nominal. This gets "interesting" as some hose sizes are not truely 3/8, for example commonly used SINGLE braid DIY hydraulic hose. This is commonly (locally) called "Aeroquip" hose because years ago "everybody" used that due to local supply. In this case, "this stuff" might be CALLED no6, but it is generally "one size down" internally, IE no6 is only .31", no 4 is only .19"

And in some cases you might have no6 hose, but with no8 fitting(s) for some reason, (example.)

There is also a certain amount of "bastard" fittings. For example, the common GM power boxes we used to use in our 4x4's used a 3/8 inverted flare for return, but a 3/8 line with a special 7/16 nut for the pressure to prevent mixup. Years later, Weatherhead actually made these in straight, 45, and 90 for guys making up pressure lines. Before that, I used to cut off a 3/8 90, and reflare it with the old 7/16 nut on

Another good example of bastard fittings are at the master cylinder and dist blocks/ prop valves of brake systems, which might use 3/16 tube but a non-standard nut.

MOST original automotive fittings, such as the original flare fittings on your radiator cooler are SAE, NOT JIC.
 
I, like Inertia, used factory bent steel lines. Only I used std. steel lines, not stainless. Had to do some minor re-bending but it wasn't much. The only hard part was fishing them through between the Hooker headers and Kevco oil pan and even that wasn't bad. Just a little tight in that area. Been in there for 6 yrs. and 12,000+ miles without 1 single issue of a leak, but I did support them correctly, not just let them hang and vibrate like some guys do. I was a forklift mechanic for about 15 yrs. so I've had my share of dealing with hose and hardline on them and find it hard to believe it would be any harder to install factory bent lines (as long as their bent correctly), and they were quite a bit cheaper when I did mine. Not sure on prices now. You'd have to check.

Been a while since I checked so I might be mistaken but I think the brass adapter on the trans is a dash 5, or as 273 put it a 5/16". If your changing to all AN fittings I'd check into changing that fitting to a dash 6 (3/8") since the fittings are more common.

Something else to take into consideration is the stock adapter fitting coming out of the trans. is a 1/8" pipe fitting meaning the internal hole is only 1/8" so you could even drop down to a 5AN hose and fittings and it'd still flow the same amount. But AN5 stuff is rarer so it might be more expensive. Just have to check.
 
I'd also like to mention that the metal cooler lines may help loose heat, where-as rubber hoses may tend to hold heat.. Just a consideration..

This company supplies all tubes, lines, and carries a bunch of A-Body brake stuff.. I just checked the catalog "original material" lines are $50, and the stainless lines were about $80 .. They carry everything, including clips etc..

http://www.canlinetube.ca/
 
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