Air Bleed Alternatives

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spinman_1949

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So the 340 is running pretty good. But idle seems rich. Not going to try to drill and tap the 4150, so I decided to pop for a quickfuel SS vacuum secondary. Now I can tune easily with removable air bleeds.


So now the trial and error begins. And since it is a 4 corner idle circuit, I will need 4 air bleeds for each size I want to try. That is about $20 a set.

My question is. Why not use brass screws and drill. Or even nylon screws and drill? Or if threads are tapered at bottom the hole, brass set screws drilled? Or cap head screws that are stainless steel? Do air bleeds have to be brass?

Thoughts? Ideas?
 
I do the brass set screw route most of the time. Works pretty well.
 
I just ordered some pnuematic plugs from PNUEMADYME. Shipping is high but cost is still less than a buck a piece. They are hex head with an O ring seal. May have to grind the hex to clear the carb body. The set screw idea is also an option, but the threads in the carb appear to be all the way to the bottom, so unsure if I would get a good seal. The installed air bleeds seal with a taper on the bottom of the head. So i figure these pnuematics with an oring will seal well. Now to get a range of numbered drills around the stock #70 idle and #28 high speed bleeds installed.


If I go ahead and opt for headers I will install a bung for an wide band 02 sensor and pony up for an AFR guage.
 
I am following this because I just bought a new holley main body with adjustable air bleeds for my 750 DP and a wideband A/F ratio gauge. I checked Summit and Quick fuel has kits with a range of 10 numbers and it says there are 4 of each size. They are $52.00 per kit and I think one kit would cover the idle air bleeds, and you would need another kit covering the range of the secondary air bleeds.
 
Hopefully one of the real guru's on this board can explain the entire process.
Most carbs have two circuits that relate to air bleeds. Idle and high speed. On the Holley and my QuickFuel the outside bleeds on the primary and the secondary sections of the main body are the idle bleeds. The inside bleeds are considered the high speed bleeds. From my understanding, idle bleeds can have an effect on transition and light throttle running. Too lean and the engine can stumble and drift at cruise. Of course primary jetting can also relate to this as well.
Again I am no expert and am just learning myself. It is good that you are getting an AFR guage. That is something I am seriously considering. One question I have is what range of AFR is normal or acceptable from idle to WOT.
 
So the 340 is running pretty good. But idle seems rich. Not going to try to drill and tap the 4150, so I decided to pop for a quickfuel SS vacuum secondary. Now I can tune easily with removable air bleeds.


So now the trial and error begins. And since it is a 4 corner idle circuit, I will need 4 air bleeds for each size I want to try. That is about $20 a set.

My question is. Why not use brass screws and drill. Or even nylon screws and drill? Or if threads are tapered at bottom the hole, brass set screws drilled? Or cap head screws that are stainless steel? Do air bleeds have to be brass?

Thoughts? Ideas?

It seems rich? How can you tell? My point is, you really can't tell for sure with out some other tools (like a wideband). I would leave the bleeds alone until you can tell for sure what you are doing with them. In other words, don't mess with them until you install a wideband...even then its hard to get a good read on what they are doing. The wideband on my car works well at WOT, but at idle it is erratic. If your carb is really rich at idle, you might need to put in a smaller IFR.

Air bleeds are a good fine-tuning tool, but if you don't know what you are doing you could really screw up your carburetor. Here is a good read if you have time.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/tuning-with-air-bleeds/



If you are still in the market for bleeds, Jegs has them for under 5 bucks a pack. You can also by blanks and drill them to whatever size you want.
 
Totally agree that not a good idea to just go ch anging stuff. As far as idle being rich. Tailpipe is an eye burner at idle. Plus I have to open throttle plate way too much to get engine to idle and that is at 22 degrees initial on the timing. Also mixture screws are about 3/4 turn out and really not big change with any adjustment. I will install the new carb and run first. No changes. Then check plugs. I have a good article on reading tqve plugs. i will also read the article you provided. Thx
 
Totally agree that not a good idea to just go ch anging stuff. As far as idle being rich. Tailpipe is an eye burner at idle. Plus I have to open throttle plate way too much to get engine to idle and that is at 22 degrees initial on the timing. Also mixture screws are about 3/4 turn out and really not big change with any adjustment. I will install the new carb and run first. No changes. Then check plugs. I have a good article on reading tqve plugs. i will also read the article you provided. Thx

You are correct that the throttle position, mixture screws not responsive and the timing are related.

The Demon guide is a reasonabley good ballpark for initial timing based on displacement and cam duration. http://www.demoncarbs.com/Tech/DemonSelectionGuide.asp

With the throttle's idle position too open too far, the idle circuit will supply more through the transition slot than the idle port. That's why the mixture screws seem largely ineffective. See if you can reduce the throttle and open up the mixture screws.

Additionally with the throttle too far open at idle, the air coming in the top of the transition slot is less than it should be. One function of the transition slot is that it acts like a variable air bleed. This old Chrysler booklet shows it even though most of the magazine writers miss it. http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/222/Page08.htm

If the cam is too radical, then the throttle can be closed down by drilling a small hole in each of the primary throttle blades. There's other ways to do it as well, but that's the usually old school method. Put the holes near the idle port so the extra air picks up fuel.
Urich and Fisher explain that on Wild Camshafts side bar of their Holley Carburetor books. Highly recommend picking up a used copy of that oldy but goody for explanation of all the systems and basic tuning.

Before drilling, check the PCV. (An inoperative or too large a PCV valve can let in a lot of extra air at idle. Radical cams that produce low manifold vacuum at idle can be an issue with stock PCV valves. )

PS. Before I forget. Once its running half decent, check the fuel level. New style bowls starting point is middle of the window. Old style, fuel level should be just below the hole. But you can adjust a bit up or down for some tuning before you change air bleeds.

Also, on the secondary side, don't mess with the idle air bleeds unless you have to. Not yet anyway. The secondary throttle blade edges are probably very low or below the transition slot. They are not going to effect your normal street driving. They come into play when those vacuum secondaries start to open. This would be high speed Wide Open or nearly wide open throttle - like passing on the highway. Put a little zip tie or paper clip flag on the rod to prove this to yourself.
 
Take a vacuum reading,, then install the proper power valves,, your idle mixture screws should come back, and your eye-watering should go away..

cheers...
 
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