At my wit's end

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havensole

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Alright so I've been trying to get my wife's Dart tuned up a bit better than it was when we bought it a few months ago. Just the usual tune up stuff. I finally got it running decent but not 100%. A couple of weeks ago I noticed that when I was taking it for a test drive around the block that it stalled when I came to a stop. Brother-in-law suggested changing the cap which seemed to fix the problem. I had it sitting for the last couple of weeks waiting to get my Ranchero out of the driveway so that I could replace the shocks and motor mounts. The wife was getting on my case about driving her car so I checked the fluids this weekend and took it for a quick drive to make sure it was running right. It seemed to idle a little rough when I put it in gear but it ran. I got to the same stop sign and it stalled again. As I drove it back to the house it just got worse.

When I redid the cap and rotor I didn't replace the points and condensor so I went ahead and got some new ones. Now I will admit that I've never dealt with points but I've read a ton of info on setting the points. From what I read the gap should be .020. I have them set to that, and I've tried small differences but no change. I tried using a spare coil I have in the garage thinking that it wasn't getting enough spark, but no change. Thought the ballast resistor might be the problem so I replaced that too. Still nothing.

The issue is that things just seem to be getting worse on the car. Initially I got it set and it idled ok but still died in gear. Then it just started idling worse and now wont idle at all. I've reversed everything I've done and still nothing. Put it back and still the same. It will run if I give it some gas but as soon as I let off it idles down to a struggle and then dies.

I read that it might be an issue with the carb so I started looking at that. I pulled the air cleaner to look down in the carb and it looks fine and seems to be spraying fuel ok. I did notice that the choke rod had no tension in it either way so I pulled that off to check it out and reset the spring. Of course in taking that off I snapped the bolt that also holds down the accelerator return spring bracket. Regardless I need to drill out the bolt and fix that, but that is kind of besides the point.

I am going to get the components to put in HEI this weekend as well as a carb rebuild kit, but was hoping you guys might be able to shed some light on what this issue might be so that I am not doing all this work to have the same problem.
 
DarTT said:
How's the charging system working?
Click to expand...

You took the words right out of my mouth.
If it isn't charging, it's getting power from the battery, and if that's weak or low, the car will run progressively worse until it dies.
 
Have you look into vacuum leak? Start at the carb base gasket. That is were mine was leaking bad. Good luck.
 
Charging system seems to be running fine. Needle jumps a tiny bit on the Alt Gauge while running but it is minimal. Battery is new but the main wires are original. One of the things I've been planning on swapping out since we bought the car, but because all of that has been working well I haven't touched it yet.

I meant to check the carb base when I was working on the car yesterday. I will check it when I get home. There wasn't a hose going from the carb to the vacuum canister/block that feeds the distributor. I figured that the carb was supposed to connect to this being as it has engraving that says "CARB" with an arrow pointing to a spout. I put a hose connecting them and it ran a little better. Both ends were capped off when we got it.
 
I'll lay a dollar to a dime it's a carb issue. Sometimes, when coming to a stop, if your float level is set too high, it'll slosh a bit and flood it as it comes to a stop.
 
Have you tried adjusting the idle mixture screw(s)? Turn the, all the way in and then back out about one and a half full turns. Then adjus pt from there in or out an 1/8th at a time to suit a smooth idle if possible.
 
Might be way off but my dart was having some similar problems and it was the ceramic resonator on the firewall. The little rod on the back of it was broke. I just tied the two wires together and it ran fine
 
I played with the fuel mixture a little yesterday to no avail. That ceramic resistor is the ballast resistor (was funny asking the guy at the parts counter for that and getting the blank stare) which I replaced yesterday. It had a slight improvement, but didn't fix the issue.
 
Setting the points gap with a feeler gage is just to get you close. You should use a "dwell meter" to get it correct. I have the Sears tach/dwell/volts meter, which you see on ebay or garage sales. Points aren't fun, especially on a slant. You said you were going HEI anyway. Did you get an electronic distributor for that? If not, a Pertronix in your existing distributor is probably easiest.

Your problems sound exactly like how my 69 slant ran for years, though many things could cause it. In my case, it was the carburetor. The 4th Holley 1920 finally made it run fantastic.
 
Thanks for the advice. We are going to the pick n pull this weekend to grab the HEI components. I already have HEI in my Ranchero, and as much as the Ford people give me crap for it, it has always run great with it. Really the only thing we need to grab is the electric distributor with vacuum/mechanical advance. I have most of the other parts (e-coil and HEI module) in the garage already.

Ordered a rebuild kit for the carb yesterday, but it wont get here until Monday at the earliest. Hoping that the float is ok since those seem to be few and far between and expensive. Told my wife that next time I have to rebuild her carb I am just going to put EFI on the slant. The Holley 1920 seems to be fading into history as fewer and fewer parts are made for it.

I've been converting my Ranchero over to an early 90's Thunderbird EFI and will eventually replace that with a MegaSquirt system. I don't really want to go with TBI on the slant six when I do it, but being as I don't have the real tools to make a custom intake that's what we'll have to do at least initially. This is probably another year or two down the road anyhow.

I'll let everyone know how the conversion process goes with the HEI and then the carb rebuild next week.
 
Since you are thinking of an engine controller later, might be better to get an "8-pin HEI", which you find in 85-95 GM trucks and V-8 cars to 93. It has a 2nd connector for computer control of spark timing, which Holley Commander 950 can use, so I expect megasquirt can too. Unconnected, it works fine (runs at base "limp home" timing), with your distributor setting the advance as normal. Grab the GM e-core coil too and cable for a simple hookup, plus a tach output signal.

Re MPFI, my eventual plan for my slant is to install the 2 fuel rail from a V-6 Mopar on a slant intake. I have all the parts, just no time. I have a very light e-beam weld aluminum intake that people don't like, so it was real cheap. But don't wait for me. I would love to hear how your plans turn out.
 
I have access to a 3D printer at work so I am kind of debating designing my own intake once I get the EFI working with the TBI. Would be nice to solve some of the issues people have had with the options thus far. Way down the road though so I'm not holding my breath.
 
Just food for thought. My car used to act just like this when the air filter was clogged.. The exhaust manifold was cracked and exhaust was getting in the stove box and getting sucked up the heat riser into the air cleaner. The airfilter would need replacing once every two weeks.

One issue I was so glad to fix.
 
Well my wife and I went to a local pick n pull yesterday because one of the parts counter guys said they had a late 60's Dart there last he went. We wanted to grab some spark plug tubes since we are missing one and grab the electronic ignition stuff. As I expected the Dart was gone but they had an early Valiant, but it didn't have the tubes. That was the oldest Mopar they had by at least 20 years so we walked away empty handed. I really don't understand why Chevy thought putting the distributor, and related components, at the back of the engine. It was so annoying trying to get at those components that I decided just to buy them new and make my own mounting bracket.

Went to another pick n pull today that I knew usually has more classic cars. They had a 66 Dart GT but it was completely stripped. Found a 62 Dart though that had 3 of the tubes. Aside from an old Lancer those were the only old Mopars they had so I didn't get an electronic dizzy. Went ahead and ordered one when we got home. Luckily they didn't have the tubes in their system so they only charged us $1 a piece. Only needed one but figured I'd take all three just in case.

Carb rebuild kit got here yesterday so I pulled it out of the car today and ripped it apart. It looks like someone rebuilt it recently as the parts are in pretty decent shape. Didn't look like they made sure the passages were clear though. I have it sitting in some cleaner now. I'll get to rebuilding it tomorrow.
 
Gotta say that I am super impressed by the PineSol as a carb dip. Components came out cleaner than I could have imagined. I rinsed everything off and coated it with WD40 before putting everything back together. I was going to test it tonight but forgot that I snapped the bolt on the choke mount that holds the return accelerator spring when I was removing everything. Also need to replace the fuel filter. New ignition components should be here in a few days anyway so I'll just wait to fire it up until then. Here are some before and after pics and one of the main components soaking. The dip started out nice and clear, but within an hour it started getting cloudy and looked like it had raw egg whites floating in it. The supplied pic is of just shortly before pulling everything.
 

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Damn, that is looking good. I have a few 1920 laying around so what part do you need?
I had to do the same thing when I put electronic ing in my car, order it.
 
Carb isn't missing anything that I know of. I didn't take enough pics when removing it and then disassembling it so it took a good amount of time to figure it all back out. The cleaned pic I posted was before I finished hooking everything back up. Just need to drill out the snapped bolt on the intake where the choke sits so I can finish installing everything. Whats funny is that the two SL6's we found at the pick n pulls both had the same bolt snapped.

Electronic Ignition stuff should all be here on Friday. I just remembered that I have a spare e-coil bracket I pulled for my EFI conversion on my Ranchero so I am hoping that I can figure a way to mount the HEI module to that from some sort of heat sink I haven't figured out yet. Hoping to get it running again this weekend.
 
Electronic ignition components wont be here until tomorrow but figured I'd drill out that bolt for the choke and fix everything else. Got it all done and put together and went to turn it over. It ran like crap initially so I got out to tune the carb and saw fuel shooting everywhere. It was leaking from the fuel line inlet, bottom of the fuel bowl, and shooting out the top. Tightened the bolts and tried it again. Kept shooting out the top and realized that the float wasn't set right. Pulled the bowl cover off (really stupid design) and adjusted the float. Turned the car back over and it idled pretty good.

I let the car idle while I waited for my wife to get home so we could take it for a test drive. After a few minutes I cut the engine. She finally got home and I showed her that it was running again. Took a bit of effort to get it to turn over for some reason and then it idled a bit fast. I tweaked the idle screws a little to get it to lower a bit. I forgot that I needed a couple of retainer clips to hold some of the rods on so we went to the parts store and grabbed some dinner. Came home and put the retainer clips on and tried to turn it over. Again it took some effort to turn it over but it finally did then started idling weird. Turned it off and looked at the engine and saw fuel on the intake. I took the air cleaner off and tried starting it again and saw fuel was again shooting all over the place. Apparently the float needs adjusting again. It was getting dark so I decided it could wait until tomorrow after I get the HEI stuff put in.
 
Looking at the diagrams I am finding online it looks like I am missing a couple of springs on the carb. The float spring and the pump return spring. These weren't in the carb when I pulled it apart so I wasn't sure I needed these but all diagrams show a need for them. The float spring would explain the issue I had with the car stalling at hard turns I think. Anyone know where I can pick these, or a substitute, up? Where exactly does the float spring sit on the float?
 
I had the same problems with the two Holley 1920s (leaked gas everywhere). I tried two different Carter bbs but they ran too rich and hard to find parts. Most people don't like the Holley 1945 but I took one from a 74 dart, put a kit in it, and stepped up the jets a few sizes (same as the 4150/4160) and it runs great. They have a similar design to the bbs so the gas level is below the gasket. If you do seek one out be sure to grab all parts to the choke (rods are different) and air cleaner as the one for the 1920 and bbs wont fit right.
 
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