Bad Starter or Starter Solenoid?

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rymanrph

rymanrph

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When I try to start the car, I can hear the relay click/thunk, but nothing else happens. I've had my battery tested and charged and its supposedly good.

I jumped the two posts on the starter relay while the key was in start; I got sparks, but the starter didn't fire.

I grounded the NSS terminal and it did the same thing. I jumped the terminals on the starter itself with the key in the run position and got sparks, but no fire. It is a new mini starter that I bought for my Doug's headers.

Could it still be my wiring or is it most likely a bad starter solenoid? One thing I did notice was the the smaller of the two posts on the starter will tighten to a specific spot and then will just spin. The wire is secure, but I wonder if there's something wrong on the inside.
 
I don't think it matters. I've had little luck finding parts for those starters (including starter drives / bendix) you'll probably need to replace the starter

One thing you need make certain of is that the battery cable is not the problem
 
Well I really hope its not the starter, because I don't want to go through the hassle of removing the header just to get the starter out.

If I get another starter that's out of the car but still connected to the two wires should it still fire or does it need to be grounded through the transmission? I figure if I can test it not installed that would at least tell me its the starter and not the wiring. If it doesn't work either, I can always take the 2nd one back.
 
The return current flow is thru the case of the starter (thru transmission). If testing it on the ground, connect the black jumper cable to the case ear. If you touch the red jumper to the stud right on the motor (under a rubber boot I recall), the motor should spin if it is good. Of course, hold the starter down with your foot. If you connect the red jumper to the bigger stud on the solenoid (normal wiring in car), then apply 12 V to the smaller stud (normally 12 awg brn wire to starter relay), it should actuate the solenoid (throw pinion gear outward) and the starter motor (if internal contacts are good).

Your starter could be fine and the electrical connection to the transmission bad. Aluminum is notorious for that. Did you sand the surfaces first and apply di-electric grease? I never install a starter without checking it first, even on a slant six where it is a simple 5 min job.
 
Starter. What you are hearing is likely the bendix engaging, but the starter isn't turning. I see that a lot. Make sure you are getting ignition power at the s terminal and 12 volts at the power terminal. If you have those, you have a bad starter.
 
Mopar to ya said:
Starter. What you are hearing is likely the bendix engaging, but the starter isn't turning. I see that a lot. Make sure you are getting ignition power at the s terminal and 12 volts at the power terminal. If you have those, you have a bad starter.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with what each terminal is called. Is the power terminal the big one with a wire coming from the battery and another wire going to the large stud on the starter? And is the s terminal the one that goes to the smaller stud on the starter?

When you say ignition power, I would need to be able to read the voltage when I try to start the car, not just having the key in the run position? I don't have any help, so if that's the case, its going to be difficult to do by myself.
 
DO NOT CHANGE THE STARTER IF YOUR USING MINI STARTER!!

starter contacts in the solenoid have gone bad, they are servicable and you do not need to change the solenoid or starter, simple $10 repair, the denso mini starters use the solenoid to both engage the drive as well as turn the starter motor over

its two small copper contacts and takes 10 minutes to change when the starter is off the car

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWm8j1SkUD8"]Denso Starter Repair (Honda, Toyota, Chrysler etc.) - YouTube[/ame]
 
I've even taken those contacts out, and in a pinch, filed 'em down to remove the burnt pits, and the same on the copper contact washer. Cleaned out and dirt or dust, carefully re-assemble (got to get the phenolic washers and spacers exactly right so as not to cause a short) and good to go. I did this on my denso starter in my Cummins - same design.
 
No. If the bendix is engaging then the starter may not be spinning over. Might be a problem with the starter or maybe something to do with how the gear on the starter is trying to engage with the teeth on the converter or flywheel. I'd pull it and bench test it. Make sure it spins free on the bench. I put the starter in a vise, jumper cables to a spare battery. Negative of the battery to the case of the starter. Positive of the battery to the same post the red battery cable connects to. Then use an insulated screwdriver to jump across the contact to engage the bendix.
 
airgrabber said:
No. If the bendix is engaging then the starter may not be spinning over. Might be a problem with the starter or maybe something to do with how the gear on the starter is trying to engage with the teeth on the converter or flywheel.
Click to expand...

I know this is not the case because when I try and start the car, absolutely nothing happens. All I get is a click which sounds like the relay, but I can't be for sure since I can't start the car and listen in the engine bay at the same time.
 
From watching that video, I can see that those two posts are supposed to be secured to the case. I know that my small post is slightly loose, so I'm going to see if I can tighten that down any first. Maybe that will make a difference.

I'm just not sure I can get the starter out with my Doug's headers in place.
 
The large wire is 12 volt power. The other wire, usually blue is switched ignition. I know what they are saying about the mini starters and changing the contacts, but if the solenoid is indeed engaging as it sounds like it is, the contacts are there and the motor is not spinning. Start with the basics. A 12 volt test light and 5 minutes and you will know what you need.
 
If starter relay is on the inner drivers fender to the right of the battery you do not need the ignition on to test the starter. Starter buttons can be purchased and used to jump from positive post of battery to plug lead on relay. When this is done just push the button and the relay will act like the ignition has been turned. If you just hear a click and a thud that is just the starter dog hitting the flywheel. You can jump straight to the red cable on relay that runs down to the starter and hit the button. If nothing happens motor is bad....this is only for the stock setup though. Also please make sure ground cable is good and secured to the engine.
 
Here's how to separate the starter relay from the starter solenoid

Under the hood, ID the "push on" wire going to the neutral safety switch. This is usually "not" yellow, and it goes right down the firewall, over the trans, and down to the switch on the trans

The remaining "push on" wire is the start wire

Remove the start wire, make sure the trans is in park / neutral. Jumper (screwdriver, clip lead) from the large exposed battery stud to the small push on terminal you just unhooked

A small "click" there is the relay.

Now, take your screwdriver and jumper the two large exposed terminals on the relay. A good starter should pull in with a loud snap and turn over. If you get sparks, but no snap, it's for sure "down there."

I'm REALLY surprised you cannot get a mini starter out of those headers.
 
I think I might be able to get it out but I'll have to drop the center link and remove the pitman arm. Unfortunately I won't be able to do that until some time next week.
 
What I suspected was correct. On the small post that kept spinning, the connection inside the solenoid was severed. Its possible that I over-torqued the nut, but I can't be sure. After a new replacement starter, all is well.
 
You can't fix it? the broken wire, I mean

In my "early years" I mostly had stick cars. This made things a bunch easier, LOL for those times when sterters gave trouble
 
It was actually the post and not the wire. It would have been difficult to fix, but it was a brand new starter. I'd rather just have one that wasn't broken in the first place.
 
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