BB TTI 2" header hot start problem

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DartmanTampabay

DartmanTampabay

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Looking to see if anyone else has had a hot start problem with a Big Block A-body using TTI 2" headers, 440-200.

My 493 4 spd runs great w/ 33 degrees of timing but when the car has been run for a while and it's hot, I cannot get it started, starter grunts but wont turn over the engine even with a jump, almost have to get a push start to pop the clutch.

Engine runs about 190 in Florida weather, using a freshly rebuilt RobbMC Performance starter # 3005 with the battery in the trunk.
Ran an auxiliary ground cable from the cross member to the 4 spd. Running an MSD 8987 start & step timimg control to retard the timing but haven't verified that's working correctly or not.

The headers are coated but come very close to the starter and I have wrapped the closest tube to try minimize the heat radiating to the starter.

Can't enjoy my 69 GTS bc it's not dependable (and very hot) - stuck right now - open to suggestions.

TTI440-200.jpg
 
You really shouldn't have problems. I would be CLOSELY inspecting ALL grounds and ALL main electrical connections. How many main grounds do you have?
 
Cable from engine to K-member, upper ground strap from intake to fire wall, cable cross member to tranny & battery cable gnd to frame in the trunk
 
Never had an issue in 20 years with my
440 with those headers and Mopar compact
starter with no insulation and in Nevada it is HOT!
Optima Battery in trunk but top grade wiring and grounds.
 
^^^^This? and Maybe Add another Ground between the F/R Frame Rails to Tie the Rear Frame to the K-Member.
 
I had a weird one in the 440 dart. Cold started great, hot it would kick back. I actually broke three starter noses off before I figured it out. The vac avance would kick in slightly while cranking. Made up a full mechanical distributor no more issues. Just something to check.
 
See if it turns over with it coil wire removed when hot. If so,Put a kill switch on the car for the ignition. While cranking the car turn the ignition on. This lets the engine start to turn without the firing holding back.

If the engine doesn't crank when hot with the coil wire off or the ignition turned off you need a larger Positive battery cable.

Same deal as cheap jumper cables if they are to small they won't jump a car with a totally dead battery without letting them on for a while.

Good jumper cables will turn any car over dead battery or no battery instantly

I think the kill switch will fix your problem. Getting it turning then turn the ignition on.
 
DartmanTampabay said:
Looking to see if anyone else has had a hot start problem with a Big Block A-body using TTI 2" headers, 440-200.

My 493 4 spd runs great w/ 33 degrees of timing but when the car has been run for a while and it's hot, I cannot get it started, starter grunts but wont turn over the engine even with a jump, almost have to get a push start to pop the clutch.

Engine runs about 190 in Florida weather, using a freshly rebuilt RobbMC Performance starter # 3005 with the battery in the trunk.
Ran an auxiliary ground cable from the cross member to the 4 spd. Running an MSD 8987 start & step timimg control to retard the timing but haven't verified that's working correctly or not.

The headers are coated but come very close to the starter and I have wrapped the closest tube to try minimize the heat radiating to the starter.

Can't enjoy my 69 GTS bc it's not dependable (and very hot) - stuck right now - open to suggestions.

View attachment 1716110589
Click to expand...
should have bought a starter from Summit , never use robmac stuff again !!!
This may not help your problem , but some of his stuff is junk , and he wont stand behind it .
ASK ME HOW I KNOW !!
 
The old starters slow cranking hot, was generally the armature/fields expanding with heat, combined with worn armature bushings, allowed the armature to literally drag on the field magnets, leaving witness marks on the armature . The more power supplied to the starter (boost) made more magnetism, causing more drag .
The new starters are a smaller version, I'd be curious to see if that armature is dragging hot ,and if simply a bush/bearing change would cure/improve it .
I always take broken stuff apart to find the cause, and perhaps prevention .

EDIT
 
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yes I agree, locked out at idle.........not good, ouch
 
i've been running welder type cable for the positive on the starter and i run the ground cable to the starter mounting bolt for a positive start . and i use the mini starter as well .

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DartmanTampabay said:
Cable from engine to K-member, upper ground strap from intake to fire wall, cable cross member to tranny & battery cable gnd to frame in the trunk
Click to expand...
That's seems like plenty. I would check and double check how CLEAN and TIGHT those connections are. In other words, REMOVE them and make sure you are down to bare metal where they connect and that the cables themselves are clean. Sounds like you have the grounds covered. Maybe you'll find one or two are just dirty and or rusty. That would make it easy.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Im guessing he has the timing locked out, which is a humongous NO NO NO NO NO.
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No kiddin. I have a friend with a Hemi Superbird clone fighting a hot start and god awful running problem and his engine builder locked the timing out. A friend and I are "trying" really hard to tell him that's not the way. He doesn't seem to be listening.
 
[1] If the timing is locked, you will need a 3 hp [ or more starter ]. MSD #5098 or Power Master #9513. Some starters are less than 1 hp.....
[2] Unibody car. Take advantage of it.
[3] Keep cable runs as short as possible to reduce voltage drop.
[4] Batt -ve cable. Run a short length from a bellhousing bolt to the f'wall [ BH because it screws into the block, to minimise resistance ].
[5] Bat + ve cable. Ideally, it's CSA must be directly related to it's length....to minimise voltage drop to factory specs; stock cable is 3 ft long, new cable is 12ft long; therefore new [ single ] cable should be 4 times the CSA of a stock cable...or run 4 lengths of stock cable.
[6] Unless some rule dictates battery in the boot, it is not a good idea, see [1] to [5]
 
My timing on my 13-1, 416 small block was locked at 34 degrees BTC. Most modern digital ign. have a 20 degree retard built in for start up and go to your locked position at 800 rpms.

So my engine would start at 14 Degrees and go to 34 Degrees with a MSD digital 6. I still needed to use the Kill switch when hot to start the engine. even with C14 race fuel. High compression plays a big factor starting an engine when hot.

High compression engines start easier with a Large duration wide overlap cam. This helps due to decreased cranking pressure. One reason a low compression engine shouldn't get to big of a cam. It turns them into chugging pigs.

Chugga Chugga Ka Chugga Chugga instead of the sound of a Herd of horses in gallop. We sit at Gate 3 at Carlisle on my Golf cart and listen to the Chuggers come in.

There is more to an engine then just adding a cam shaft for sound.
 
What size is the battery cable? Im thinking its too small.

I bet if you put the battery in the front your hot start problem will go away.
 
Thank you all for the inputs, definitely gave me some ideas to check, especially the kill switch - any specifics on installing that would be welcomed.

The 493 is 10.8 compression w/ Eddy RPM 60929 heads, Comp Cams Xtreme Energy™ Hi-Lift XE285HL, timing is 34 deg w/ MSD distributor unclocked & MSD 6A. Like Oldmanmopar said, I added the MSD 8987 start & step timimg control for a 20 degree retard at start-up - but not exactly sure that its working correctly or not.

Cabling is 2-gauge from an older Taylor battery trunk kit.
 
DartmanTampabay said:
Thank you all for the inputs, definitely gave me some ideas to check, especially the kill switch - any specifics on installing that would be welcomed.

The 493 is 10.8 compression w/ Eddy RPM 60929 heads, Comp Cams Xtreme Energy™ Hi-Lift XE285HL, timing is 34 deg w/ MSD distributor unclocked & MSD 6A. Like Oldmanmopar said, I added the MSD 8987 start & step timimg control for a 20 degree retard at start-up - but not exactly sure that its working correctly or not.

Cabling is 2-gauge from an older Taylor battery trunk kit.
Click to expand...
That’s a shitty cam selection for a 4 speed car. I had that in my 340 and it really sucks under 3k rpm…
 
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