Best oil for alky? Wear? Hp?
- Thread starter gregsdart
- Start date
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j par
Well-hung Member
Probably a different animal. I haven't run an alcohol class in quite a while. My engine builder had me running Kendall GT1 conventional 20/50. That was dirt with a 4 gallon dry sump system. As to why he had us running it, I have no idea.
T56MaxTorq
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, you can’t go wrong if you buy any exotic racing oil that has methanol compatibility.
Krooser
Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...
Most any racing oil will work if you keep the alky out of the oil.
Around here you'll get 20 different answers and the same amount of brands. When we ran hilborn injected mods Amalie and Valvoline we're popular...we ran whatever we got free out of the bosses 55 gallon drum.
Around here you'll get 20 different answers and the same amount of brands. When we ran hilborn injected mods Amalie and Valvoline we're popular...we ran whatever we got free out of the bosses 55 gallon drum.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
It would be more profitable to call several oil manufacturers and see what they say.
I'll repeat it until I die...I never use a TRUE, group IV or V base oil with alcohol. Just because the Supreme Court decided that group III oils are synthetic does not make them synthetic, and it damn sure won't be the last stupid decision to come out of that hokey crap hole.
That said, in basic terms alcohol is a solvent to synthetic base stocks. I don't care who you are, unless you are buying something specially made for alcohol with a synthetic base you won't have decent ring seal.
Many will come along and tell us how they are doing it with a true synthetic, but looking deeper into it you will find group III base stocks.
I have used 50/50 blends with alcohol and they worked, but they were specifically designed to work with alcohol. I've also worked with numerous blown alcohol guys who used the same oil and it worked. It wasn't cheap, it isn't cheap but extended drain intervals, no alcohol in the oil with a correct tune up and better ring seal were seen by all of them.
I can honestly say I'm glad I'm out of the oil business. People are too cheap and unteachable to make it worth the effort.
T56MaxTorq
Well-Known Member
Whichever oil you choose, see if the manufacturer offers an oil analysis program as well.
Yellow rose, as a last (15th) dyno pull on my 528, i dumped the reg oil and tried Mobile one, same vicosity. I lost 15 ft lbs of torque, and didn't have a clue why. I thought i should test it at the track too, car slowed down. Is Mobil one a class4 or 5 ayn?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
That's a good question and I don't know. I'll look around and see if I can find out. I know that when Torco decided to develop synthetics they bought a bunch of technology from Mobil and Stauffer chemical to reduce the learning curve.
I'd suspect you got a group IV base and you gave up some ring seal. Did the oil look funny when you drained it out? I've seen the Viscosity Index Improvers come out like plastic.
Which Mobil oil was it exactly?
As i recall, (2003!) It was regular 20w50 m1.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I did a little research last night to refresh my memory. Now I have to remember what I read last night!! Should have posted it then.
The lawsuit was Mobil verses Castrol and I think it ended in 1998. The complain was Castrol selling group III base oils as synthetic when they are nothing more than highly refined mineral oil. Think Castrol Syntec. Mobil didn't want group III oils classed as synthetic, because by the actual definition of the term it's not.
As is now normal, the Supreme Court, which has ZERO experience in tribology decided group III base stocks are synthetic. They were wrong and the confusion it causes is just crazy.
There was a thread a couple of years ago where someone running alcohol switched to a "synthetic" and picked up power. It took me an hour on the phone with the guy who sold the oil to finally tell me it was a group III base oil. No wonder it picked up power.
I'd suspect the oil you used was most likely group IV base stocks, and alcohol doesn't like it. Remember, oil (and the dry film lubrication additive package in the oil) seal the rings. If the fuel and the base oil hate each other, you'll lose ring seal every time.
IMHO if you are going to run alcohol, use a group III base oil. Even if they call it synthetic.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
I suspect you hit, or hit hit close, to the reason, YR. All you say about additives and group IV's rings true with everything I had read.
Now whether Mobil 1 is a group III or IV or a blend.... that is still a controversial topic. Mobil does not make it clear. I have not read the court proceedings to see if there are any clues in that about the Mobil 1 base stock; probably never will have the time to waste on that LOL.
Greg's results are pretty interesting. Greg, did you change to another oil and have the speed/torque losses reversed? Or is that still in the future?
It was a long time ago, but i did try m1 a second time, this time at the track . i wish i had taken notes, but didn't. I recall it lost .05 et?
I warm my motor up and heat soak it for consistancy, so i would think the oil was up to temp as well.
I warm my motor up and heat soak it for consistancy, so i would think the oil was up to temp as well.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Would it be correct to think that 5 degrees of temp change or 20% humidity change could make a .05 difference? It just seems hard to attribute to the oil alone, unless all the parameters were tightly controlled.
Mobil 1 is a pretty thin oil across all temps, and unless the oil temp was over 200 degrees, it would actually still be thinner viscosity than a standard dino oil of the same hot temp weight. Might be being pushed/blown off of the rings easier.
Mobil 1 is a pretty thin oil across all temps, and unless the oil temp was over 200 degrees, it would actually still be thinner viscosity than a standard dino oil of the same hot temp weight. Might be being pushed/blown off of the rings easier.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Gotcha...tnx. That level of consistency must become boring... LOL
I have a friend who runs a 800 plus small block w/ alky. He runs BRAD PENN I know several guys who run that in there race engines & street engines
Boring, no! Being able to get a car to run within .004 ,four psses in a row, makes me happy. It also messes with some of the competition.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
I'll bet it does.. nice work!
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