Cam shaft swap and break in 360

[Jadaharabi]

That is a full groove bearing it should be in the number 2 Cam Bearing spot not the number one.
I would definitely replace that bearing.

Maybe not number 2, I don't see another hole for oiling the top end.

 

[toolmanmike]

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View attachment 1715126134

Ouch! I would say it needs a new one. What the heck happened there with the wrong bearing?

 

[Slantsix64]

Ouch! I would say it needs a new one. What the heck happened there with the wrong bearing?

i dunno so there is not suppose to be no bearing in that spot? or is that the incorrect bearing for that spot. cause it has the rest off them intact

 

[yellow rose]

The grooved bearing goes in the number 1 spot.

I'd run that mother in a New York second. I've run way worse than that.

Be careful going back together and forget you did it.

 

[toolmanmike]

I have Scotchbrited and scraped edges but never ran one with a chunk out. Each to his own.

 

[Jadaharabi]

i dunno so there is not suppose to be no bearing in that spot? or is that the incorrect bearing for that spot. cause it has the rest off them intact

Yes there is supposed to be a bearing there.
I have never seen a full groove bearing used in the first hole before.
They use the groove in the number 2 and number 4 spot to have full-time oil to the top end of the motor.

 

[Slantsix64]

Yes there is supposed to be a bearing there.
I have never seen a full groove bearing used in the first hole before.
They use the groove in the number 2 and number 4 spot to have full-time oil to the top end of the motor.

Well can i get away with just changing the first one? i inspected the rest and they are fine. Is there anywhere that rents the tool. Cam bearing Installer

 

[Slantsix64]

I have Scotchbrited and scraped edges but never ran one with a chunk out. Each to his own.

its a 1986 block 360 i dunno if they just did that one that year or what is going on with that

 

[Jadaharabi]

Well can i get away with just changing the first one? i inspected the rest and they are fine. Is there anywhere that rents the tool. Cam bearing Installer

You could take your pocket knife and dress the edge of that so that there's no sharpness there maybe even take one of those little green scouring pads from the kitchen and dress the edge that is chipped away.
when you put the put the cam back in it be sure to not hit that area with one of the lobes. And then you're going to put the cam plate on and that will seal that area there.
Or you can just replace that one Cam Bearing. You do not have to replace all of them.
If you don't know anybody with a cam bearing installer Then you will probably have to take it to a shop to be replaced.

 

[BigBlockMopar]

Old and worn bearings are known to flake like that.
And it's the most important bearing and also the most loaded part of the bearing that's chipped away. More chipping will follow if not replaced.

If you just want to get this thing running then go right ahead and jam the cam back in there and don't bother about properly timing/degreeing it either.
But if you want this engine to not have come apart again in a short while, replace all the cam bearings, degree the cam properly, and break it in with 2200-2500 rpm for 20-30 minutes.
But if the cambearings are worn, what do you know about the main and rod bearings?

The higher rpm at break-in is mainly to make sure enough oil gets splashed up onto the camlobes to ensure lubrication.

 

[nm9stheham]

I tend to agree with BBM that the material is brittle. It may have just chipped out when the back lobes were pulled out and dragged at an angle across the front bearing. But the broken edges do look like the material is getting old.

OP: Is the engine still assembled in the car? Installing the cam bearing will be easy but removing the cam bearing will be tricky in that case; the standard tools are made to remove cam bearings with the engine apart. The problem is that those tools are made to DRIVE the bearings, not pull them out. Driving it out will put the cam bearing INSIDE the engine. You might be able remove the bearing:
- Stuff the area behind the cam bearing with large cotton cloth rag to catch the bearing and also to catch any more bits that come off the shell
- Use the tool to drive the bearing back. Or, using a punch with a small round end on it, tap on the edges of the bearing to drive it back; move around and around the bearing's edge and tap, tap, tap it out to fall into the rag.
- Reach in and turn the bearing side ways and pull it out; the steel shell will have to bend a fair amount; you may have to get a loop of welding rod or something similar around it to get enough force to pull it out this way.

I HAVE NOT DONE IT THIS WAY SO CAN'T TELL YOU HOW HARD THIS WILL BE. I am just trying to come up with a way to do this in the car. And the oil valley slot between #1 and #2 cam bearings is too small the pull it up out of the top. So the real trick is how to pull the bearing out....

Something like a pilot bearing removal tool with fingers that reach in and hook around the circular bearing and pull it out with a slide hammer type of action would be better, but nothing for that size is coming to mind. I can also think of ways to make a thick flat washer set that can be put in and turned to catch the bearing edges and pull it out, but that requires some fab work; that would be the best home-shop way to do it. And you could carefully saw a slot in the bearing, being careful to catch the crap (That's the trick!) and not nick the hole too much; once there is a slot in the bearing, the tension will release and it will come right out.

So with all of that.... I personally would try to pull it out, but if my skills were in the starting phases, then I think I would run it as it. I have run some waaay out of spec cam bearing clearances at high RPM's with never a 'known' issue. And since the main loading moves around between 4:30 and 7:30 on the clock as you look at the bearing, where the lifter loads bear onto the cam, that part looks decent; most of the material is still in that area.

 

[nm9stheham]

I have never seen a full groove bearing used in the first hole before.

FWIW: My 360 block has that full groove in the #1 cam bearing; looks just like the OP's. I assume the groove is there to distribute the oil better around the bearing so as to get more oil to the back face of the cam sprocket; it just rides on the face of the retainer plate and more oil there is good.

 

[yellow rose]

Yes there is supposed to be a bearing there.
I have never seen a full groove bearing used in the first hole before.
They use the groove in the number 2 and number 4 spot to have full-time oil to the top end of the motor.

In all my years I've never seen grooved cam bearings for the 2 and 4 cam bearings. The cam has a groove and I've grooved many cams, but I've never seen those bearings with grooves in them.


Doesn't mean it isn't true. Just that I've never seen it.

 

[Slantsix64]

Old and worn bearings are known to flake like that.
And it's the most important bearing and also the most loaded part of the bearing that's chipped away. More chipping will follow if not replaced.

If you just want to get this thing running then go right ahead and jam the cam back in there and don't bother about properly timing/degreeing it either.
But if you want this engine to not have come apart again in a short while, replace all the cam bearings, degree the cam properly, and break it in with 2200-2500 rpm for 20-30 minutes.
But if the cambearings are worn, what do you know about the main and rod bearings?

The higher rpm at break-in is mainly to make sure enough oil gets splashed up onto the camlobes to ensure lubrication.

Yup i understand if you want to do it right the first time have to do it by the book

 

[Slantsix64]

I tend to agree with BBM that the material is brittle. It may have just chipped out when the back lobes were pulled out and dragged at an angle across the front bearing. But the broken edges do look like the material is getting old.

OP: Is the engine still assembled in the car? Installing the cam bearing will be easy but removing the cam bearing will be tricky in that case; the standard tools are made to remove cam bearings with the engine apart. The problem is that those tools are made to DRIVE the bearings, not pull them out. Driving it out will put the cam bearing INSIDE the engine. You might be able remove the bearing:
- Stuff the area behind the cam bearing with large cotton cloth rag to catch the bearing and also to catch any more bits that come off the shell
- Use the tool to drive the bearing back. Or, using a punch with a small round end on it, tap on the edges of the bearing to drive it back; move around and around the bearing's edge and tap, tap, tap it out to fall into the rag.
- Reach in and turn the bearing side ways and pull it out; the steel shell will have to bend a fair amount; you may have to get a loop of welding rod or something similar around it to get enough force to pull it out this way.

I HAVE NOT DONE IT THIS WAY SO CAN'T TELL YOU HOW HARD THIS WILL BE. I am just trying to come up with a way to do this in the car. And the oil valley slot between #1 and #2 cam bearings is too small the pull it up out of the top. So the real trick is how to pull the bearing out....

Something like a pilot bearing removal tool with fingers that reach in and hook around the circular bearing and pull it out with a slide hammer type of action would be better, but nothing for that size is coming to mind. I can also think of ways to make a thick flat washer set that can be put in and turned to catch the bearing edges and pull it out, but that requires some fab work; that would be the best home-shop way to do it. And you could carefully saw a slot in the bearing, being careful to catch the crap (That's the trick!) and not nick the hole too much; once there is a slot in the bearing, the tension will release and it will come right out.

So with all of that.... I personally would try to pull it out, but if my skills were in the starting phases, then I think I would run it as it. I have run some waaay out of spec cam bearing clearances at high RPM's with never a 'known' issue. And since the main loading moves around between 4:30 and 7:30 on the clock as you look at the bearing, where the lifter loads bear onto the cam, that part looks decent; most of the material is still in that area.

yes i understand knowing me i run me engines hard and i cant live thinking that there is a chip on and important bearing. yes the engine is out on a stand would i have to take apart the rods caps pistons just to do that one bearing? also this engine only had 20,000 miles on it and is very clean inside

 

[BigBlockMopar]

Here's how one of the cambearings of my 440 engine looked liked when I started noticing low oil pressure numbers at warm engine temps.

 

[yellow rose]

Here's how one of the cambearings of my 440 engine looked liked when I started noticing low oil pressure numbers at warm engine temps.

View attachment 1715126334

Now that one I would NOT run.

I will say the number one cause of bearings getting beat and flaking like that is low oil volume/low oil pressure.

 

[nm9stheham]

Here's how one of the cambearings of my 440 engine looked liked when I started noticing low oil pressure numbers at warm engine temps.

View attachment 1715126334

Kinda looks like the material got hot and was torn out by the cam....ow.

 

[nm9stheham]

yes i understand knowing me i run me engines hard and i cant live thinking that there is a chip on and important bearing. yes the engine is out on a stand would i have to take apart the rods caps pistons just to do that one bearing? also this engine only had 20,000 miles on it and is very clean inside

Oh, well that is a TON better. No need to disconnect rods; either pull the bearing out the front if you can find a tool to grab in behind the rear edge. Or, just pull the oil pan, use a small drift to gradually tap it back into the engine (or the cam bearing tool). Let it fall out the bottom; it might hang up on something, but it ought to go out past the rods and crank, no problemo; there should be plenty of room, 'specially if #1 and #2 pistons are down low. (Famous last words right?! LOL)

Install it from the front; just square it up into the hole, and use a plastic mallet to start it in EVENLY and tap it in gradually going around and around the edge til the front edge is flush to the block. The use the drift to gently tap on the front edge around and around to sit it back that .050" or so to get it centered in the bore. Or use the tool to do the same. Make sure the oil holes in block and bearing line up at least 50%. This one is easy.

 

[QuickDart360]

I used durabond high performance cam bearings in my 360. These seem to be better @ holding up as far as babitt.

 

[Marcohotrod]

of course oil pressure was low, with that bearing that bad all the other bearings were junk too

Here's how one of the cambearings of my 440 engine looked liked when I started noticing low oil pressure numbers at warm engine temps.

View attachment 1715126334

 

[Slantsix64]

Oh, well that is a TON better. No need to disconnect rods; either pull the bearing out the front if you can find a tool to grab in behind the rear edge. Or, just pull the oil pan, use a small drift to gradually tap it back into the engine (or the cam bearing tool). Let it fall out the bottom; it might hang up on something, but it ought to go out past the rods and crank, no problemo; there should be plenty of room, 'specially if #1 and #2 pistons are down low. (Famous last words right?! LOL)

Install it from the front; just square it up into the hole, and use a plastic mallet to start it in EVENLY and tap it in gradually going around and around the edge til the front edge is flush to the block. The use the drift to gently tap on the front edge around and around to sit it back that .050" or so to get it centered in the bore. Or use the tool to do the same. Make sure the oil holes in block and bearing line up at least 50%. This one is easy.

So i ran into an issue i think summit sent me a defective cam i installed it it was putting on the timing chain and the cam shaft does not have the groove sticking out to hold the gear in place? wierd

 

[Slantsix64]

This is the old shaft next to the new one (ahaha) showing there is no groove

 

[QuickDart360]

That groove is a seperate piece. It must be removed with a chisel or large screwdriver and a light hammer. Install in new cam.

 

[Marcohotrod]

and the piece in the old cam is a key, the new cam needs a key installed