Can a power top be raised manually?

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e50095

e50095

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I’m starting to work on a 67 that’s been outside for a couple years. It’s gonna be a bit before I can get it inside. I thought if I disconnected the rams I could raise the top manually to help keep some water out, but I don’t see anywhere to disconnect them. Can anyone point me in the right direction? There is no mounting bolt/nut at the top of the ram. Thanks guys.

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My buddy had a 64 Dart convertible, and he somehow disconnected the rams to enable manual operation after the main hydraulic cylinder blew out. But I don't know exactly what he did. He drove it that way for awhile.
 
You should be able to disconnect the rams where the top mechanism attaches. If you take the hydraulic lines off, you will have one "Hell" of a mess. Get a FSM from My Mopar and do your research.
 
I believe you want to find the cotter pins at the top of each of the rams as shown in the attached picture. BTW, the top is heavy.
Steve

Conv top ram cotter.jpg
 
I would guess you are gonna need about 3 guys, or else some form of straps tied to the garage joists
 
Did you try just applying 12 volt power to the motor ?? Iirc just under the rear seat you should find a connector. Three wires, one ground, one for up and the other down. Worked for me. Can't hurt to try.
Good luck.
 
In short ...

Yes.

And I did it myself!

I just did that today on the 67 dart im rescuing, but in reverse!

It had been sitting outside since as much as 1976

Red - remove the clip then tap the pin out. BE CAREFUL THAT YOU DON'T LOOSE ANY PARTS.

Green - remove the 2 nuts and take the pivot pin plate off. Then slide the ram off the other 1/2 pin.

BE CAREFUL THERE ARE PLASTIC SLEEVES ON BOTH PINS. DO NOT LOOSE THEM.

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Assuming the pivots are free to move you can lift up on the header and open it close the top

WARNING.

the hoses are / might be VERY brittle.

Just moving a ram out of the way and both hoses snapped.

Lucky there was not much fluid in the system, both rams had fluid in them but the pump had about a tablespoon in it. Lucky the insides look pretty good.
 
After the rams are removed its possible to do it singlehandedly, but much easier with one on each side.
 
67Dart273 said:
I would guess you are gonna need about 3 guys, or else some form of straps tied to the garage joists
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Capecodcuda said:
I believe you want to find the cotter pins at the top of each of the rams as shown in the attached picture. BTW, the top is heavy.
Steve

View attachment 1716174150
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Steve
Capecodcuda said:
I believe you want to find the cotter pins at the top of each of the rams as shown in the attached picture. BTW, the top is heavy.
Steve

View attachment 1716174150
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Steve, thanks so much for that pic. The only difference I see is that my ram is completely vertical, and the top is hidden behind that channel. Just knowing there's a cotter pin in there helps. Maybe I can get a cotter pin removal hook type tool in there. I may also try hooking up a 12 volt source to the motor as suggested below. Nothing to lose really with trying that. I sincerely appreciate everyone's input.
 
Should be some hitch pins on the pistons are shown. Might still have some issues getting the top to latch. My top has shrunk a bit and can be difficult to to latch if its been down too long or is cool outside. I've CAREFULLY taken some ratchet straps to the roof header and then to either the seat brackets or under the dash to get the top to latch.
 
Pins the cylinder pivots on.
PXL_20231206_021146275.NIGHT.jpg


Full closed position you can not easily access the cylinder pin.
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Top partially up, cylinder pin exposed.

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You have another option...

Remove or cut the lines to the cylinders, be prepared for fluid to come out. Or remove the lines from the pump.

Leave the cylinders in place and the top will open or close with no additional resistance
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My second car was a ‘65 Chevelle SS 327 4-speed convertible. It had a manual top and it wasn’t that hard to put it up or down.
 
Dana67Dart said:
Pins the cylinder pivots on.
View attachment 1716174737

Full closed position you can not easily access the cylinder pin.
View attachment 1716174735

Top partially up, cylinder pin exposed.

View attachment 1716174741

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You have another option...

Remove or cut the lines to the cylinders, be prepared for fluid to come out. Or remove the lines from the pump.

Leave the cylinders in place and the top will open or close with no additional resistance
View attachment 1716174738

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So I went back out to the field, and there is no way for me to get the pins out with the top being partially raised. I found the top motor wiring harness under the seat, and unplugged it. I’m charging a spare battery to take there to try to get the top to raise itself. Does anyone know if up is the red or yellow wire? If that doesn’t work work I’m gonna cut the lines and raise the top manually enough to remove the cylinders to store them way for the winter. On a side note I saw the left rear window glass is gone. Is it a convertible only piece or will a sedan/ fastback do as a replacement? Thank you all for your advice, it’s invaluable to me.

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The rear side glass is specific to convertible. As for which color for up and down just try each one for a few seconds at a time and observe. Should see some action. Good luck.
 
Looks like red is up!

BTW.

Remember moving the top mechanism is dependent on
ALL the pivot points being able to move. Get some penetrating oil on them for a few days.


Technically you can force the top up or down.

The fluid will just leak past the valves.

When my working top on my other 67 dart is up but 1/2 way closed it will slowly close itself.

So you might try a light but constant pressure on both sides of the header lifting up and slightly to the front of the car.

You could make a Teepee out in the field and attach a strap come along to it and the header sides

DO NOT PULL ON THE CENTER OF THE HEADER
you will likely fold it in half.
 
I just checked my dart

With the top up about 12" the upper pivot pin is accessable

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I believe your goal is to get the roof up to protect the interior from mother nature. Hopefully when you do the roof is in decent condition, no big holes. Maybe start to think about cobbling up some kind of tarp/tent to cover just in case.
 
Success!! I ran 12 volts to the ground and red wire. The motor fired up and although it wasn’t able to raise the top by itself we were able to help it along. I could see some fluid moving through the lines but mostly air. It got tough as we got close, but after a few tries we were able to get it latched. I found out the top had been down since at least 1983. Turns out the broken glass was from the back window, not the side. We rolled the windows up and got a tarp on it just as the heavy rain came that’s gripping a good bit of the east coast today.

Thanks so much to everybody for your help. I know some would say this car may not be worth saving, but I disagree. It’s got an X head 340 and 727, an 8.25 suregrip, 15x7 rally’s with 11.75 disks up front and 11” drums in the back. I have an OEM sway bar and reinforced LCA’s for it. I think it’s a decent base. I can handle all the mechanical, and I know bodywork and interior can be really expensive, but I’ll be happy to drive it even if I have to wait a few years for paint. I ran into a guy at the gas station late one nite this past summer. He was driving an early 60s Studebaker Daytona. He said it’s not fast, it doesn’t want to stop, and it doesn’t handle, but you can have it when you pry it from his cold, dead fingers. I think that’s the right attitude to have, enjoy yourself.

Thanks again everybody…

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Congratulations. Probably low on hydraulic fluid. Mission accomplished. Cudos to you for wanting to save that car. Good luck with it.
 
I have a 69 Dart conv See avatar that has the mechnical parts removed. I can manipulate the top single handedly. Rarely take it out in chancy weather. I have a 69 cuda that the top works. Still rarely take it out if rain might happen. Just trying to protect the undercarriage.
 
e50095 said:
Success!! I ran 12 volts to the ground and red wire. The motor fired up and although it wasn’t able to raise the top by itself we were able to help it along. I could see some fluid moving through the lines but mostly air. It got tough as we got close, but after a few tries we were able to get it latched. I found out the top had been down since at least 1983. Turns out the broken glass was from the back window, not the side. We rolled the windows up and got a tarp on it just as the heavy rain came that’s gripping a good bit of the east coast today.

Thanks so much to everybody for your help. I know some would say this car may not be worth saving, but I disagree. It’s got an X head 340 and 727, an 8.25 suregrip, 15x7 rally’s with 11.75 disks up front and 11” drums in the back. I have an OEM sway bar and reinforced LCA’s for it. I think it’s a decent base. I can handle all the mechanical, and I know bodywork and interior can be really expensive, but I’ll be happy to drive it even if I have to wait a few years for paint. I ran into a guy at the gas station late one nite this past summer. He was driving an early 60s Studebaker Daytona. He said it’s not fast, it doesn’t want to stop, and it doesn’t handle, but you can have it when you pry it from his cold, dead fingers. I think that’s the right attitude to have, enjoy yourself.

Thanks again everybody…

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An 8 1/4 rear with 11" brakes? That sounds like a strange combination.
 
cudamark said:
An 8 1/4 rear with 11" brakes? That sounds like a strange combination.
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All it requires is 11” backing plates and strut bar off a big car. If I remember right a lot of C bodies have them, and pretty much all B150 vans.
 
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I've been manually raising and lowering the top on my 1964 Valiant w/ power as I work on it. You can't just pull up on the header bow, rather you must first pull up the center "elbow" on each side and together, either two people or raise one a bit and prop it, then pull the other. Then you can pull it up by the top bow. Without the elbows up first, it is sort of locked.

New cylinders are available ~$220/pair I recall. I used a late 1990's Mustang pump-motor ($60 ebay). It looks identical to the 1964 (amazing how little conv tops have changed since 1930's), but wired differently. My 1964 motor has separate up and down coils, each flowing to the motor case (ground) and actuated separately directly by the switch. The later Mustang has a single coil where you reverse current direction for up or down, and no flow to ground. I installed two relays under the dash, which are actuated by the factory switch to reverse polarity. That keeps the high current off the valuable switch. Ford did the same, but put the relays at the motor. You could also do that, then your thick red and yellow wires from the dash would simply flow logic signals to the relays and would have to run another wire for 12 V supply.
 
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