Demon Clone Project

[Idaho]

I'm finally going to start a project. I plan to make a Demon clone from my "wreckage" that's sat around for years. My first decision is which car to use. Yes I am asking questions in this thread but it should turn into a resto thread. If I'm wrong to post here let me know.

1st car: 73 Duster /6 (blue) (good powertrain, good interior but wrong color) crashed by daughter, parts car only - driver door & L quarter pushed in bad (fortunately no serious injury). I likely won't use much and should part it out (maybe daughter will help, learn and earn since it's hers).

2nd car: 73 Duster (yellow) Was a 340 4 speed with folding rear seat (not my favorite color - golden brown), making it kinda special. No powertrain. Have 73 340 and later 4 spd with od from truck to replace. Problem is both front frame rails have crash damage. K member bent on R. Roof was vinyl, with typical rust resulting, no perforation but pitted. Small rust area R lower quarter, passenger floor pan bad, otherwise very good metal. I have a complete front 73 clip and have been planning to splice it on. I also have all the front end parts from a 72 Dart to make the Demon clone. Use K member from Dart Sport (below).

3rd car: 74 Dart Sport 318 auto (brown). Powertrain intact (removed). Bucket seats, and rear seat good except bucket seat bases need recovered (nice parchment color). Spare rear seat cover came with car. Had vinyl roof so also rusted, not as pitted. Main problem is L quarter has been bondoed, now with lower area rust. Bondo goes to driver door, 1/8" thick in places, actually very nice job but I would replace this quarter if I used this car. Needs partial floor pan (driver side).

Here's my non-negotiables.
It will have a Dart/Demon front end.
It will have a 340 and 4 speed.
Color will be 1973 Mist Green (or Meadow Green). No vinyl top. No stripes.

Goals - enjoy the build - make it look how I like it - build 340 to sizzle tires (350 hp?), summer cruising, 1/4 mile, not a daily driver, not a show car.
Budget - cost concious, just what it takes to do a nice job. Resale value is not irrelevant but not a primary consideration.

Option 1: Splice 73 Duster front clip. Keep folding seat (recover with parchment color). Recover bucket bases to match. Leave tail panel in Duster version. Keep Duster front sheet metal for potential future re-sale to someone who may want to restore to original.

Option 2: All the above but replace tail panel to take Demon cloning further. I like the Demon tail panel. Seems to me a clip spliced Duster loses any real re-sale value anyway.

Option 3: Use the Dart. Cut up the 73 340 for the quarter and 4 speed floor pan. Sell folding seat etc. (not sure if it's even desirable).

Option 4: The above but transplant folding seat into Dart (I kinda like it).

I have more confidence replacing the front clip than the quarter. Maybe because I've thought it through and can visualize exactly what to do. My mig skills are just OK. I have a friend who is excellent to weld the frame rails. Quarter replacement spooks me for some reason and maybe it's silly but I feel reluctant to chop up the 340 Duster even though it will wind up being a chopped up car if I use it.

Of course there is no right or wrong way but I'm interested to hear opinions on these options. I'd like to know which option folks think provides better resale potential even though that's not the primary consideration. I suspect the Dart with replaced quarter may have better value than the 340 4 speed Duster with spliced clip. If I do the Dart I'll feel free to swap to a Demon tailpiece.

Ya, I know, just make a decision and do it, right?

Arlie

 

[crazy 340]

I wouldnt use the 340 car worth some money
the one your daughter crash seem to be in bad shape so pass on this one
the dart can be fix maybe by using the daughter's car parts

 

[inkjunkie]

The first picture looks like it will buff out.....

 

[Old Tired Rebel]

I vote that you do it the way you want.

 

[dusterbd13]

yup, use the dart sport. and instead of parting the true 340 4 speed car, use repro sheetmetal.

my plan would be thus:
replace the mangled front clip on the 340 car. with the correct 73 clip from the daughters car. sell o here as a roller to someone that wants a true 340 car to restore.
take money from that sale, and your 340/4 speed power train, stuff in dart sport. put in the tail panel, patch the quarter, weld in the 4 speed hump, and roll. youll be money ahead at the end by doing this, as a true 73 340 car should be worth a few grand as a complete roller. youve got most of the parts needed otherwise already, including a lot of parts from the daughters car. on top of that, you can find repop panels cheap these days.

you want a demon clone of 71-72 cariety in the end. with a specific paint, and the best return on investment possible. this seems like the most logical way to get there from here.

only way to get a true clone is to do it right, which is tail panel, front clip, etc. i personally like the 73 up interior better than the 70-72 setup, so that would be a win for me.
id also re-use the parchment to match the exterior color. take the 340, freshen it,, mild hydraulic roller and some indybrock heads, dual plane, 800 cfm eddy carb. run 3.55 gears in the back on a ford explorer 8.8, 11.75 front disc conversion to the 73 up suspension, 1 1/8 front sway bar, 7/8 rear. circle track rear springs, .89 t bars front, bilstein shocks, subframe connectors, torque boxes, stitch weld the unibody while youre at it and reweld the k frame. stage 3 FFI power steering, power brakes, AC. lot of sound deadener as well as a 2.5 exhaust with x pipe.
drive the crap out of it.

if youre gonna do a clone for a car you lust after, do it right and do it fully. prepped like that, and done WELL with docu,mentation, youre looking at a 10-18k car at the end.
most of those parts are availible cheaply, readily availible, and worth more as a package.

also, youll enjoy the miles you put on it more, as it will be much more enjoyable, comfortable, and drivable. also, none are glaring modifications that detract from the origonal style youre going after with a cclone.

hope that helps. (can you tell ive thought about this before? only mine would be black ext, 4 speed auto, and EFI. abd a daily driven demon clone)

michael

 

[Idaho]

Michael, great thoughts, obviously from significant experience. Thanks for sharing all that detail.

I have a complete 73 front clip, including bumper, perfect grille, even the same yellow, for the 340 car so I would not have to use the blue one. I've thought a spliced car may not sell but perhaps that's not the case. I need the driver side floor pan and shift pedals but since it needs passenger side pan work anyway, a buyer could just put a whole pan in and find pedals. Or I can buy a new pan and leave what's there.

One fly in the oinment is location here in N Idaho, trying to sell but likely it's the right choice anyway.

Most of your other suggestions I get. Some I'm fuzzy on. The Dart is a 74 with factory front disc brakes and power steering, power brakes, and AC. Any reason not to use what's there? There's a lot more in your suggestions to figure out but that can wait.

All input is much appreciated (except mr buff-head inkjunkie - kidding of course)

crazy 340 - greetings from a fellow canuck (transplanted).

Arlie

 

[76orangewagon]

Arlie,
Man even I would pass on the blue car, rust replacement is one thing but there's alot of structural damage to pull back out...my vote is for the yellow 340 car....if I can offer any help feel free to ask, although keep in mind I'm no expert...just a fellow hobbyist...good luck, I'll be watching.

 

[dusterbd13]

theres no real reason not to use the 74 stuff, other than its stuff from 1974. the parts i listed out will handle, feel, brake, and ride much better that the stuff from 1974. but the factory parts are all the basis of what i listed out.
let me know what specific questions you have if you decide to go the route i suggested.

asnd in this day and age, you being in idaho is not that big a deal.

 

[Idaho]

Michael, as I read your advice to keep the 340 car intact and use the Dart it just made sense. I may be guilty of looking at these cars as being low on the totem pole in terms of value. I'm uncertain about getting much for the 340 car in this economy but really I dont' have to get that much return to make it worthwhile and I'll feel better not trashing it. I don't mind the extra work.

I'm in the process of drilling out the spot welds on the inner fenders and will build an angle iron jig using the Dart as reference to get the replacement front clip dead on. I may post my plan for frame splicing to get input.

I'll research here regarding your tips and ask for input where needed. I'm amazed at what's available on this site and what guys on here are capable of. My project will likely be kinda slow. I don't intend to get real detailed with the thread since everything I'll be doing is likely on this board already. It will just be awesome to have the thread up so I can get input.

Regarding the blue 73, I only put the pic up because it's part of the inventory. I bet there are folks who could revive it, but not me!

Thanks again.
Arlie

 

[Idaho]

Well I put in a day on the 340 car and it was weird. In order to prep for front clip r&r I had things to do inside, mainly pulling the heater unit, and steering column. Well while Im in there its like she comes alive and weaves a spell.

I noticed the odo reads only 53k. Then it was like the car was whispering things in my ear. Like "I deserve to be restored" and "I really am special". Now I'm noticing a lot of things that suggest she really did have a short lifespan. The door hinges are tight. The headliner has only one scar...

I was expecting a lot of seized bolts and frustration but it was like she wanted to be worked on and came apart easy. She actually had me seduced into changing my plan to do a Demon. I was seriously considering a restoration on her instead, in factory yellow. Only after I went back in the house and looked through the "Demons and Dusters" thread was I able to shake the spell.

Now she needs a name... Like The Witch.

Anyone else have cars that cast spells?

 

[Old Tired Rebel]

Well I put in a day on the 340 car and it was weird. In order to prep for front clip r&r I had things to do inside, mainly pulling the heater unit, and steering column. Well while Im in there its like she comes alive and weaves a spell.

I noticed the odo reads only 53k. Then it was like the car was whispering things in my ear. Like "I deserve to be restored" and "I really am special". Now I'm noticing a lot of things that suggest she really did have a short lifespan. The door hinges are tight. The headliner has only one scar...

I was expecting a lot of seized bolts and frustration but it was like she wanted to be worked on and came apart easy. She actually had me seduced into changing my plan to do a Demon. I was seriously considering a restoration on her instead, in factory yellow. Only after I went back in the house and looked through the "Demons and Dusters" thread was I able to shake the spell.

Now she needs a name... Like The Witch.

Anyone else have cars that cast spells?

What do you think of Dreamweaver or Black Magic Woman,Witchy Woman

 

[Idaho]

Dreamweaver... That's good.
Naming it might make it even harder to sell - like naming farm animals that are going to get ate.
Arlie

 

[damnimcooltom]

Twin Lakes, eh?

 

[Idaho]

Near Rathdrum, on Ohio Match Road.
CDA eh? Any other FABO members near here you know?
Nice blue Demon.

 

[Asktoro]

I'm not far from you, Missoula Montana. Bout 3-4 hr drive. I had the same plan you did --70s era duster and slap on a dart front-end. If you absolutely want to pull off the clone look you'll need sheet metal of a demon for the lights which isn't hard at all given there's repro metal for that.

 

[dusterbd13]

complete thread hijack.
my parents spend every summer traveling out west. they always make comments about messoula. i thought they were joking about a town named that. just odd, as dad was mentioning it earlier tonight.
bice to know its really there. is it really that small and cold?
end thread hijack.
michael

 

[unknownsnake]

Looks like a lot of choices there. You can def make some money off selling parts you don't need. Helps having money for the stuff you need

 

[Idaho]

Here's the pics for the folding seat shelf, Bill.
The measurements are not perfect as the points of reference are a little fuzzy but you get the idea. You can see the 1" flange in one of the pics.

Missoula eh! I'm finding out there's a few members nearby. I plan to do the tailpiece sheetmetal and tail-lights which are also being reproduced.

I'm going to post some pics soon to get input on frame splicing. I imagine there's some expertise out there. Maybe a separate thread for that.

Arlie

 

[Idaho]

Not sure why they didn't come up the 1st time.

 

[Idaho]

Please check out the thread "Opinions on Duster front clip/frame R&R" in the body section. I'd like some input to make a decision.

 

[Idaho]

I made the hard decision to use the 340 car for parts. Hasn't been cut just yet as I'm prepping the Dart first. Kinda funny, I'm doing what they did on the "Chop Cut Rebuild" Duster - left quarter and tail panel.

The Dart is stripped except the front and rear suspension. I cut the rear glass rubber, saved the glass, broke out the windshield since it was cracked, saved the rubber since it's in short supply. Got all the stainless trim off without damage.

I decided to document the quarter replacement since I could not find much on that here.

I started by "getting the lead out". I don't have a rosebud tip but my welding tip worked fine, just had to keep it moving. I scooped with a paint stick, and used shop paper towel to clean off the hot lead. I was impressed with how nice the factory lead work looks.

Removing the 1/4 was done with the tools shown (ya lots of HF specials but they're workin fine. Before cutting anything I tacked up angle iron braces across the door posts side to side and front to back. I screwed a 2x2 across the trunk frame.

An abrasive wheel worked well to show a lot of the spot welds. The biggest challenge is finding all of them (you can't) and drilling so the spot weld cutter is centered to get the whole weld. I drilled through the first layer with a 1/8" bit so the spot cutter stays centered.

Trouble spots: 1/4 meets tail panel; rear window frame meets trunk; rear post meets drip rail; 1/4 meets lower rocker;

In these areas I just cut around the spot welds with a grinder and cutting wheel. They are easier to deal with after the 1/4 is off. I did that all along the lower area since this area is less accessible.

I used mainly a small pry bar to work the seams apart. It's surprising how much pounding with a small hammer the cheap Chinese pry bar can take. Finding welds you could not see is part of the fun.

After I've finished removing the leftovers, I'll start cutting the 340 car. I'll likely do the same kind of cutting but on the framework rather than the 1/4.

Lots of rust inside that I'll treat with converter of some sort. I'll try spraying something in on the other side. I'm also going to leave some holes at the lower 1/4 inner frame, and make holes on the other side before sandblasting to help get sand out, then weld them shut.

Lots of rust under seam sealer. Not fun getting that stuff off. My method: pretent I'm a caged rat knawing like crazy. Nasty how it sticks in your teeth.

Its very cold to be painting but I want to epoxy (thinking SPI) everything after sandblasting. I think I'll paint until its too foggy, open the door and clear it out, re-heat and keep going. Researching products to preserve metal before priming just did not produce anything I found satisfactory.

 

[Three A's]

I don't know, but to me it looks like you have enough to build two car '73 duster & the dart, i'd take the frame rail from old blue and any other parts you need and go from there. At lease you'd have a car to sell or give to your daughter. JMO.

 

[Idaho]

Thought plenty about that. Two cars is just not in the cards. My time for car toys is limited and I don't want my shop permanently tied up as I like to do other things like woodworking. Cost is another factor. If I did a second car I'd give it to my daughter, not sell it as to me the amount of work involved is too much for what I'd get for it.

What part of Alberta? I've lived in Manning, Cold Lake, Wembley, Edmonton, and Calgary.

 

[Burntorange70]

Been coverting a 75 Duster to a Demon. That lead sure does make it hard don't it. LOL Looking good so far keep up the nice work.

 

[68-GTS]

Option 4 # ??
Part them puppies out and maybe pick up something in this price range
that has no real structural damage .... Just a thought

http://www.gmautosalesinc.com/1968_Dodge_Dart_143998430.veh