easiest way to adjust the cam bolts

[jw97neon]

so i am just finishing my big bolt swap on my 64 dart. i replaced all bushings and ball joint in my upper control arm. i installed them on the car and noticed that the bushings are tight. i tried turning the camber adjusting bolt and found it very difficult to adjust. is there a tick i do not know of to help with the alignment when i get it done? thanks

 

[ir3333]

if the nuts are loose they should turn easily....now if you have the cams opposing each other it may be impossible.

 

[jw97neon]

I installed the cam bolts the same way they came out. i think I will remove the control arms and try some antiseeze. maybe that will give it a little lubricant.

 

[ir3333]

o.k. the nuts are loose and you are turning the cams by
placing a wrench or socket on the bolts?
..this should require very little effort?

 

[Dave1967]

I just replaced my cam bolts. Got them from rock auto. I also put in the offset bushings. I did grease the cams and the slides on the outside. They moved very nice.

 

[jw97neon]

ya all is band new. I think the mounts are bent in do to the old bushing being so wore out. I will play with it this coming weekend so more.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Be vewey,vewey caweful with the antiseize.
If you get on the face of the bushings or under the cams, it has to come off, or else it will be possible for the cams to slip, and your alignment has to be redone. The absolute only place to put that stuff is on the shank of the adjuster bolt, and only enough to prevent rust.
If you unbolt the UCA from the car, and reinstall the adjuster bolts (No nuts) into the arm, they should spin freely. If you then reinstall the bolts with cams, correctly indexed,into the frame sockets(no UCAs), and with nuts finger tight; then they should rotate semi-freely with a wrench. But if you fail to install the loose cam-plate correctly indexed, then it all locks up. But you would really have to try hard to assemble it this way with the UCA installed.This was mentioned in post #2.
Be advised that Many of us have run into a situation with new MOOG adjuster bolts. It seems that the unthreaded shank is a hair long, preventing a solid clamp by the alignment tech. Sometimes just a spin around the block is enough to cause the alignment to slip.I cured the problem by installing 1/8" hardened washers under the heads of the cam-bolts.

 

[jw97neon]

Be vewey,vewey caweful with the antiseize.
If you get on the face of the bushings or under the cams, it has to come off, or else it will be possible for the cams to slip, and your alignment has to be redone. The absolute only place to put that stuff is on the shank of the adjuster bolt, and only enough to prevent rust.
If you unbolt the UCA from the car, and reinstall the adjuster bolts (No nuts) into the arm, they should spin freely. If you then reinstall the bolts with cams, correctly indexed,into the frame sockets(no UCAs), and with nuts finger tight; then they should rotate semi-freely with a wrench. But if you fail to install the loose cam-plate correctly indexed, then it all locks up. But you would really have to try hard to assemble it this way with the UCA installed.This was mentioned in post #2.
Be advised that Many of us have run into a situation with new MOOG adjuster bolts. It seems that the unthreaded shank is a hair long, preventing a solid clamp by the alignment tech. Sometimes just a spin around the block is enough to cause the alignment to slip.I cured the problem by installing 1/8" hardened washers under the heads of the cam-bolts.

thank you great info

 

[1969383S]

And do not try to crank on them with the suspension loaded.

If it is all assembled then unload the suspension first.

If it is manual steering then all out in the front and all in rear is a good starting point. Move the rear out to get the desired camber, that way you get as much caster as it will hold.

 

[Dave1967]

It's a 1/2" bolt. Torque them to 80 foot pounds. No amount of anti seize or grease is going to let the cam slip.

 

[AJ/FormS]

It's a 1/2" bolt. Torque them to 80 foot pounds. No amount of anti seize or grease is going to let the cam slip.

Well go ahead and anti-seize yours up then. My alignments don't come back. Your results may vary.Re-alignments are free, if it can be shown that I goofed. I hate doing stuff a second time, and especially for free.

 

[purplehazenils]

And do not try to crank on them with the suspension loaded.

If it is all assembled then unload the suspension first.

If it is manual steering then all out in the front and all in rear is a good starting point. Move the rear out to get the desired camber, that way you get as much caster as it will hold.

Bringing a very old thread back to life but is this true that you have to unload the suspension to adjust the cams?

Im getting ready to do my own alignment but if you have to jack the car up every time you make an adjustment it seems like it going to be a lot harder than I thought..

 

[1969383S]

Bringing a very old thread back to life but is this true that you have to unload the suspension to adjust the cams?

Im getting ready to do my own alignment but if you have to jack the car up every time you make an adjustment it seems like it going to be a lot harder than I thought..

You don’t have to but! You will surely create issues if you do not. When fully loaded you are inducing undo stress to the mounts and cam rubs, and trying to rotatate those cam bolts under load will get you unwanted results. JMO. A-bodies are weak there, I always unload then adjust and bounce. It sucks but first time you bend out a cam tab you will wish you were more careful. I never had issues with my B-bodies and maybe only my particular A-body but post this as thought before you start cranking on the pull bar.

 

[ir3333]

This will probably raise some eyebrows but i jack each wheel up under the lower A arm,take the wheel off and lower the A arms on softwood blocks ...each side.
I make all my adjustments, button things up, test drive it and re- check everything.

 

[1969383S]

This will probably raise some eyebrows but i jack each wheel up under the lower A arm,take the wheel off and lower the A arms on softwood blocks ...each side.
I make all my adjustments, button things up, test drive it and re- check everything.

You effectively unloaded the upper arm doing this. However you should re-load and jounce or a short drive to check again.

 

[72bluNblu]

Well go ahead and anti-seize yours up then. My alignments don't come back. Your results may vary.Re-alignments are free, if it can be shown that I goofed. I hate doing stuff a second time, and especially for free.

I put a dab of grease on the back face of the cam bolts on my cars so they adjust smoothly during alignment. Not a ton, not enough to squish out when you tighten the cams, just a light film. Never had them move, done it for years. It also keeps any moisture and corrosion from getting behind the cams and making adjustment difficult later. Properly torqued they shouldn’t move at all, and mine haven’t.

Bringing a very old thread back to life but is this true that you have to unload the suspension to adjust the cams?

Im getting ready to do my own alignment but if you have to jack the car up every time you make an adjustment it seems like it going to be a lot harder than I thought..

The cams should also be pretty easy to adjust even with weight on the suspension, the weight of the car is carried on the lower control arms. At rest the upper control arm is just holding the spindle/tire upright, there’s some lateral force that’s only a small component of the force from the weight of the car.

The alignment changes when you articulate the suspension, so it needs to be set and adjusted at ride height. Only the torsion bar adjusters should be adjusted with weight off the suspension.

When a shop aligns your car on an alignment rack, the weight is on the suspension and the car is at it’s normal ride height. I do mine the same way, car sitting on turntables and slide plates, all the weight on the suspension.

This will probably raise some eyebrows but i jack each wheel up under the lower A arm,take the wheel off and lower the A arms on softwood blocks ...each side.
I make all my adjustments, button things up, test drive it and re- check everything.

It just means that the alignment you set and your alignment at ride height are two different things. You’re setting your alignment specs at some random position in the suspension travel. The closer that is to your actual ride height the less of an issue it is, the further from actual ride height the more screwed up your alignment is.

 

[Mattax]

After adjusting, tighten the nuts with the cars weight on the wheels (or control arms. Same with the rear lead spring eyes.

 

[1969383S]

Good luck with that. Set your ride height keeping in mind the angles of the joints and adjust from there. Even on plates I never cranked the cams without relieving the stress on the cams. Not my car so have fun.

 

[72bluNblu]

Good luck with that. Set your ride height keeping in mind the angles of the joints and adjust from there. Even on plates I never cranked the cams without relieving the stress on the cams. Not my car so have fun.

Good luck? There’s no luck involved. That’s the way it’s supposed to be done.

You can’t fully unload the cams without altering the alignment. So how do you set the alignment correctly? Turn the cam, lower the car, roll the wheels to put the car back at it’s true ride height, set it back up on your rack, then check what you did? Repeat a few dozen times?

Every professional alignment shop with an alignment rack makes those adjustments with weight on the suspension. You don’t unload the suspension to adjust the cams.

And again, how much load do you think is on the cams anyway? The lower control arms carry almost all the weight. The upper control arms just locate the top of the spindle, not hold up the car.

 

[1969383S]

Good luck? There’s no luck involved. That’s the way it’s supposed to be done.

You can’t fully unload the cams without altering the alignment. So how do you set the alignment correctly? Turn the cam, lower the car, roll the wheels to put the car back at it’s true ride height, set it back up on your rack, then check what you did? Repeat a few dozen times?

Every professional alignment shop with an alignment rack makes those adjustments with weight on the suspension. You don’t unload the suspension to adjust the cams.

And again, how much load do you think is on the cams anyway? The lower control arms carry almost all the weight. The upper control arms just locate the top of the spindle, not hold up the car.

Not a few dozen. But maybe twice if you are good with your adjustments. IMO it is the only way to get it right and not damage the car. Fords and even some Chrysler’s with the sliding arms are no different. Take your tool into the slot and try to yank the arms under load. Likely as soon as you loosen the hold nuts they slip and oh ****. Unloaded they never do and you can make minute adjustments. Reminds me of others at my old shop and banging and cussing. When I say unload I mean taking the weight off but not lifting all the car up if you get my drift.

 

[ir3333]

I have my blocks at ride height.When i have everything the way i want it i index my cams.After tightening i haven't had any cams change.

 

[1969383S]

Good luck? There’s no luck involved. That’s the way it’s supposed to be done.

You can’t fully unload the cams without altering the alignment. So how do you set the alignment correctly? Turn the cam, lower the car, roll the wheels to put the car back at it’s true ride height, set it back up on your rack, then check what you did? Repeat a few dozen times?

Every professional alignment shop with an alignment rack makes those adjustments with weight on the suspension. You don’t unload the suspension to adjust the cams.

And again, how much load do you think is on the cams anyway? The lower control arms carry almost all the weight. The upper control arms just locate the top of the spindle, not hold up the car.

And really no different on a bow tie piece of crap. Can you put shims in without unloading it or using a long pry bar?