Electronic ignition issue

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You can get some idea of chain/ sprocket condition by watching the rotor as you turn the crank back and forth against chain slack. About 10* movement is all I'd give it on the outside, should be less.

If that test shows suspect, pull the alternator and fuel pump and get in there with a light and mirror, and feel around the chain with your finger. To get the slack on the pump side, you need to rotate the crank normal rotation until "you get the slack out."

If that doesn't show anything, and you still suspect the dist. I would NOT be afraid to yank the dist. out. Mopars are specially easy since they only go in two ways. So just note where the rotor points and either "remember" or write it down.

Then you can take a good hard look at the dist.

You REALLY need to get a light. Check your local Craigslist, thrift stores, or garage sales. I've bought two that work great for 5 bucks apiece. I do NOT trust "dial up" (delay or readout) lights.
 
For sure on the light and pretty much need to get caught up with tools in general. I walked away from the hobby almost 25yrs ago and in the last year or so have more time to get back in but man I surely see how much I have forgotten. I really appreciate all the members input and after reading the replies and thinking of what has been said,things start to come back and yes now I do recall doing some or something similar to this. Going to check things in the morning and see where it goes. Thanks again greatly appreciated, Jeff
 
Well today after a consultation or 2 , I decided to pull the front of my engine apart. Before I did all this I set the #1 piston to tdc,checked and double checked it's position,felt all good. I was expecting some shreds or gear damage when that chain cover popped open and was pleasantly surprised to see steel sprockets. Had to look pretty hard for the timing dots though on the sprockets found them and high lighted them to see. I noticed that the crank sprocket was set very close to where I set the balancer at, but the cam sprocket was closer to the 11 o'clock position. Now I didn't think that was right so I rotated things over again only this time I stopped the crank at 12 o'clock to see if the dots lined up and they didn't. Crank sprocket at 12 o'clock and the cam sprocket was at about 3- 4 o"clock. I repeated this a few times and no way these timing dots would line up. I was under the impression that if the sprockets are set to match on installation this is what I should have see on a stock set.The crank sprocket and cam keys are still in the groove the chain has about 3/8" approx of play and the teeth all look pretty good. As always appreciate the help,Thanks Jeff
 
Both the crank and cam sprocket are keyed. I cannot see how an all steel cam drive with only 3/8" of chain play could slip. I'd recommend you get a second set of eyes on the thing.

Look carefully for more key slots in the crank sprocket. You may have an "advance / retard" cam drive set which has at least THREE different timing marks on the sprocket

I don't know what the below sprocket fits, but they all work similarly. You use which keyway you want, but you also must use the correct mark.

Some sets have a dot for zero, and a triangle and square for the advance/ retard, others have "O", "R" and "A"
crankgear.jpg
 
Crank sprocket has 2 key slots cam is single key. I was wrong previously on the cam position dot. When the crank is at tdc then the cam dot is at the 6 o'clock there is roughly 4 teeth difference to the crank which appears to be at 1 o"clock. I 'll see if I can put a picture up to show much easier than long song and dance. I will look for the other marks as well. This engine ran very well before we parked it so I am a little confused as to how it ended up running like crap. But it is and old car and part of the hobby is to keep it up and running no matter what the challenge is. All a learning curve which is all good. Thanks 67, Jeff
 
This is the best I'm afraid I could get. You have to look close to see the cam dot at 12 o'clock. I had an extra set of hands for a few minutes and re measured the chain slop and got 5/16". On the 2nd pic if I rotate the crank to be more closely pointing to #1, I believe I was 10° after or close to it. Thanks Jeff
 

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I can't tell from that photo. I'd rotate the cam to 6 o'clock and the crank to 12 o'clock, they are easier to see. But it appears you have the correct dot, is between teeth "three spaces" to the left of the keyway. (Look at the sprocket photo I posted)
 
Not to sure if these pictures are any better a bit of a difficult shot to make for sure. It is hard to see but there is a dot in the crank sprocket that appears to line up with the cams dot.
 

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It looks in time to me. Notice in the photo of the example I posted, that whatever crank key slot you use, the dot having to do with that slot is 3 "spaces" to the left (CCW) of the slot.

What I'd do next is use a piston stop to be sure the balancer outer ring has not shifted.
 
Thanks 67 for your help on this. Unfortunately something has come up and I have to put this issue on the back burner for a few weeks. When I return home will get back into things. Greatly appreciate all the help trying to solve this issue,thanks to all. Jeff
 
70Swinger340 said:
Thanks 67 for this info I will give things a good look tomorrow. Not sure about the cam sprocket as the history on this car is zero . This is one of those cars you likely were told to run from and fast...haha.This engine has been apart and back together.Thought about a chain slip but when I got tdc and rotor looking correct I kind of tossed that aside but now maybe we need to revisit that thought. I was hoping to just keep the car running for the summer and try to figure out whether or not I need to rebuild the engine.Seeing now maybe we need to really look at the power plant harder than just saying it runs and we don't require a rebuild ....Yet. Pretty much now thinking I may need to do a power train rebuild front to back and then we will know we have a dependable runner. Our plan is to hopefully blow it apart this October and rebuild the car over the 18 month period. Thanks again for the info,Jeff
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I seen erratic timing when cranking and idle from a loose timing chain. Easy check is with the dist cap off and turn crank by hand or with a break over bar. Turn crank till rotor is turning then, turn crank backwards and see how much you can turn the crank till the rotor starts to turn again. How much you turn the crank till rotor turns is how much slack the chain has. If alot of slack that explains why you had to turn the dist so far to get it to run.
 
Thanks guys for your help and suggestions. Got the boy to do the back and fourth on the crank while I watched the rotor.I think the root of the problem is the chain as the rotor did not move until he actually moved the piston downward. It also looked at about 10° after is when the rotor actually looked more in alignment with #1 rather than #3. When I get back home we are going to revisit the problem but I think in the end we are going for a rebuild then we will know for sure what is inside the motor.At the moment it is a mystery as to cam,cam maker etc. Now I am not sure if it would be a wise decision to install new chain and gear set without knowing what is inside. Thanks Jeff
 
I have to tell you, Jeff, that chain does not look to have enough slop to really cause a problem
 
Going to put it all back together today and see where it goes. Just have today and tomorrow to play with it then it will have to wait until I get back from the east coast.
 
I agree w/ 273 that the slop doesn't look bad. However, a timing set is fairly inexpensive so maybe change. I got the 3-key type, which is mid-grade (~$35). I set mine at the 4 deg advance for better mileage and to compensate for eventual wear.

I'll add a couple of things:

Set #6 cyl to TDC. That is where the dots on the crank and cam sprockets should align and be closest together. Confused me at first on my 273 since I assumed it would be #1 at TDC like other engines I recall (2.4L).

I don't see an "oil slinger" washer over the crank sprocket. Maybe you took it off. If not, you can get replacements easy.

While in there, check your timing chain oiling. I think your year had the upper left bolt w/ a thru hole to drip oil onto the chain. Insure the hole is open or that they didn't mix up bolts. Even better, you can upgrade to the later "drip plate" where you leave out that bolt. I got one for ~$15 at a dealer.
 
Thanks Bill for the additional timing info.Think I will run into the city tomorrow and have a chat with the speed shop boys and see what we can come up with. Sure like to get it running before we go away. I do have the oil slinger for it and also I looked for the oiling hole and it looks like there are 2 non threaded holes just behind the cam sprocket about 9/16" diameter that run into the valley under the intake.
 
Mopar performance has a chain tensioner that will take slack out of the chain. Mancini sells them under P/N MOPP5007709. I have them in both of my 360's and they work good.
 
Well I think I will close this thread and thank you all once again for your help. Tonight I put on a new chain drive and also fabricated a missing oil drip tang and still looks to me like I am at the point of where I was a week or so back. Going to button things up tomorrow and hopefully get it to run long enough to park on the other side of the garage. Run outta time to go any further for now,mid September when I get back from the east coast will revisit this issue... but, maybe from the back side next time. Not a total write off as I did buy some tools and yes books so not a total loss. Trial and tribulations of the unknown I think in the end just best to blow it all apart and rebuild with the knowledge of what ever we do we know what we have. Reliability.. Thanks again Jeff
 
Well thought I would just update things here as I left it unfinished in mid July.I did install the new double roller timing chain and thought that would be it until we return. As things go it is unfinished business and I couldn't really leave it, at least not all together. So put it all back together and set the timing at TDC,pulled the distributor and rotating the drive gear to where the rotor lined up more closely to # 1 or straight ahead. Anti freeze back in the rad. New plugs,wires,coil, orange box,dist cap & rotor,no time to test fire and the wife walking in the door. That was at 5:30pm July 20th,at 6:20pm we were on the road and heading to the east coast.
Well today she fired right up...but with a miss in it. After a 2nd distributor cap and rotor change,she fired up and it actually runs very well. Just need to tweak things and I think all will be good for now.We just might make it to the last car show in our area now. So again I thank you all for your help in getting her back on track.
 
Success is sweet :prayer:. It is demeaning when an engine isn't running perfect and I have had to live with that, especially in my dumF kid days. My 69 Dart ran rough at idle and sometimes stalled at red lights for decades, despite mechanics and swapping parts. After my ~4th carb swap (on a new long block), if ran perfect and made it a joy to drive.
 
So what is your conclusion, was the other cam drive somehow mis--marked?

Glad you got 'er on the road
 
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