Excessive play in steering wheel ?

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gdizzle

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This could be a real dumb question. But my 66 dart has some serious play when steering. Like several inches each way when I turn the steering wheel. However the power steering is fracking awesome. Turns easier than my new cars.
So what is the culprit ? And is it an easy fix? Are there any other fixes you would do at the same time? Like shocks?
I want to say that I have worn Tie Rods. But I don't really know what that means.
 
This could be a real dumb question. But my 66 dart has some serious play when steering. Like several inches each way when I turn the steering wheel. However the power steering is fracking awesome. Turns easier than my new cars.
So what is the culprit ? And is it an easy fix? Are there any other fixes you would do at the same time? Like shocks?
I want to say that I have worn Tie Rods. But I don't really know what that means.

you need to rebuild the front end. ALL of the bushings, tie rods and ball joints are shot. you need to get a front end kit from PST or Just Suspension. google is your friend.
 
I'd check to make sure the mount bolts on the steering gear where it mounts to the k frame are not loose, if the car is new to you. Then on to the rebuild which honestly is probably the issue. But the steering gear bolts only cost some time to check.
 
I'd check to make sure the mount bolts on the steering gear where it mounts to the k frame are not loose, if the car is new to you. Then on to the rebuild which honestly is probably the issue. But the steering gear bolts only cost some time to check.

Yeah, start with the easy stuff. Start with Dubob's suggestions.

Some people don't want to throw a kit at it unless a lot of it has passed its useful service life. Put front of car on jack stands. Put both hands on top of tire and jerk top of tire towards you several times. Listen for clicking sound and where it is coming from. From the top of the wheel, upper ball joint; bottom of the wheel, lower ball joint; center of wheel much closer to you, outer wheel bearing. Put hands on sides of tire and try to turn wheel left and right. Same deal, listen for clicking noise. While the car is up on the stands, check the three bushing on each side. It will probably be necessary to take the wheels off to see the upper control arm bushings. Look for any bushings that are "hogged out" in the center, or have significant chunks missing out of them.

I agree with younggun2.0, that you would be best off with a front end kit. Remember that, in all probability, this stuff has been in there for almost 50 years. It should be worn out.

I've had a pair of '66 Darts; one PS, the other not. Rebuilding the front ends made each of them better drivers
 
This could be a real dumb question. But my 66 dart has some serious play when steering. Like several inches each way when I turn the steering wheel. However the power steering is fracking awesome. Turns easier than my new cars.
So what is the culprit ? And is it an easy fix? Are there any other fixes you would do at the same time? Like shocks?
I want to say that I have worn Tie Rods. But I don't really know what that means.

yep thats real dumb.you dont know what tie rods are?yep thats pretty dumb.you need to become more aquainted with your mopar.maybe learn a little about your car.im not trying to burn you down,but come on dude.im going to just say,take it to a shop,if you really dont know what tie rods are,how do you know they are worn?someone tell you?
 
Hey turns out I do know what a tie rod is. I just google'd it and that is the part I was thinking about.

Thanks for the good info on a complete rebuild of the front end. Will start looking around for those kits.

:burnout:
 
In the same line of questioning, I have a 67 Dart with the front end completely rebuilt, except for the steering box. The system is power. The pump has been replaced with a Saginaw unit and both the pump and box are empty, (no fluid). I get 1-2 inches of play from 1200 in both directions before the center link moves. If fluid is filled will the play go away? Does it sound like I should get a new box or send it to Firm Feel? Again, sorry for the hijack.
 
22
that may be normal. Pop the hood, grab the steering shaft and gently turn it one way, and then release it. Notice that it kinda pops back by itself? Turn it the other way. Same deal? What is happening is this; inside the box is a part called a reaction disc. Its just a very large thin washer. When you initiate a turn, the first few degrees of steering wheel travel, flex this washer. This allows the pump pressure to enter the boost chamber and assist you in the turning motion. Then as soon as boost is working, the steering box does its job. So this reaction action adds up to some perceived play to you, the operator.
Now, once the system is filled, and bled, this action is somewhat minimized, but never eliminated.
The steering box can be disassembled, and more reaction discs installed. This makes it harder for those first few degrees to allow boost in. Some of the play is removed, but the amount of boost is lessened as well. Which is a good thing on our overboosted Mopes. IIRC, I installed 3 discs in my box, which seemed just right to me.
 
check the bushing of the idler arm. If its worn, itll just 'deflect' before it acts upon the outer tie rod. And the steering box bolts. Manual boxes have a sector shaft adjuster bolt, power boxes are a little different but I agree, they are 1 finger turners for sure, whether you like that or not.
 
I will check the steering connections again, maybe something was left loose. The car had been on jack stands in a garage since 1993, (I got it last year... and it had no front suspension). Is the installation of the, "discs" something I can do with the box installed in the car in the garage? When the steering shaft is moved back and forth, it feels like there is no resistance. It does self-center for the most part though. Sounds like I will have to filler-up, and put it on the list of things I need to watch during break-in. Thanks again.
 
you need to rebuild the front end. ALL of the bushings, tie rods and ball joints are shot.

How do you know? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

Do you have a working crystal ball? Can you see through the internet? Do you have mental telepathy? No way in the world can you KNOW that his ENTIRE front end needs rebuilding. No way, no how. It certainly MIGHT, but to arbitrarily arm chair a GUESS is irresponsible of you and to him.

gdizzle, you need to get the car on jack stands in the front and while looking under it as someone rocks the wheel back and forth from the inside, look for and loose suspension parts. Look at all the joints where the tie rods are connected both inner and outer. Look closely at the idler arm. Grab it and see if there is any vertical movement.

After that, lower the car back down. Jack each side up one at the time with the jack under the lower control arm with the tire about 4" off the ground. Place a long prybar under each tire and pry up hard. Look at the upper and lower ball joints and see if there is any vertical movement in them.

Closely inspect the upper and lower control arm bushings and see if the rubber is distorted. Check to see if there is play in the steering coupler, just in front of the firewall.

Look to see if there is any play in the steering gearbox as someone rocks the wheel back and forth. Look at the pitman arm and make sure it is rocking back and forth the same as the steering shaft. If it is not, the gearbox has wear.

Some of yall love to spend other peoples' money. Not one single damned one of you knows what's wrong with the OP's car, yet you are ready to spout off that everything is toast when you cannot even see it.

He may need everything. But to arbitrarily tell him that, without explaining to him how to inspect it himself and LEARN and FIND OUT on his own is about as stupid as it gets.
 
Good explanation Rob, I see he is new here and may be new to 60s mopars
also. The front suspension may be completely rebuilt and it may feel loose to him
compared to a more modern car he is used to driving with rack and pinion steering.
Being new you do need to do a bit of getting familiar with the suspension parts. What they are called and what they do.
To put it simply you will need to be looking, feeling and listening at all the movable joints for slop or lash that create a delay in tire wheel movement to steering wheel input. Have someone
help you shake it down.
My experience has been when I pick up a old mopar previous owners seem to neglect
the lower control arm bushing more so than all the other parts. It is the hardest suspension wear part to replace and gets skipped often.
Have fun and be safe.
 
ThanksRusty,
You have a genuinely interesting,flat-out up front way of communicating, that I can only aspire to.
I wanted to comment on that post, but thought better of it, on account of what my wife once said to me.
I thought he might have been kidding, so reread it several times. Couldnt really figure it one way or the other. Couldnt find any "lols" either.
Glad to see you're in fine form, despite the tinnitus.
 
Did you have anything apart like the steering joint coupler if so you may have put the metal shoes in wrong that would cause a lot of play
 
You the Bomb RRR! My thought when I read that as well. :burnout: MT
 
ThanksRusty,
You have a genuinely interesting,flat-out up front way of communicating, that I can only aspire to.
I wanted to comment on that post, but thought better of it, on account of what my wife once said to me.
I thought he might have been kidding, so reread it several times. Couldnt really figure it one way or the other. Couldnt find any "lols" either.
Glad to see you're in fine form, despite the tinnitus.

I do still have my moments. lol
 
Because its a first generation A-body, Very first thing to look at is steering gear mounting to K member.
Second place to look is the box coupling that attaches steering column to steering gear.
Third is input shaft moving lengthwise in and out of top seal as shaft turns left and right.
Everything else is normal wear parts commonly replaced when tires and alignment a purchased over the years.
 
gdizzle
IMO, the smartest thing to do is to figure out if the "play" is before the steering box,after the steering box, in the steering box, or under the steering box. This is a recap of most of the posts,above. Rule them out one by one.It will come to you.
 
yep thats real dumb.you dont know what tie rods are?yep thats pretty dumb.you need to become more aquainted with your mopar.maybe learn a little about your car.im not trying to burn you down,but come on dude.im going to just say,take it to a shop,if you really dont know what tie rods are,how do you know they are worn?someone tell you?

^^^^^^^^ Why be a jerk? ^^^^^^^
 
How do you know? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

Do you have a working crystal ball? Can you see through the internet? Do you have mental telepathy? No way in the world can you KNOW that his ENTIRE front end needs rebuilding. No way, no how. It certainly MIGHT, but to arbitrarily arm chair a GUESS is irresponsible of you and to him.

gdizzle, you need to get the car on jack stands in the front and while looking under it as someone rocks the wheel back and forth from the inside, look for and loose suspension parts. Look at all the joints where the tie rods are connected both inner and outer. Look closely at the idler arm. Grab it and see if there is any vertical movement.

After that, lower the car back down. Jack each side up one at the time with the jack under the lower control arm with the tire about 4" off the ground. Place a long prybar under each tire and pry up hard. Look at the upper and lower ball joints and see if there is any vertical movement in them.

Closely inspect the upper and lower control arm bushings and see if the rubber is distorted. Check to see if there is play in the steering coupler, just in front of the firewall.

Look to see if there is any play in the steering gearbox as someone rocks the wheel back and forth. Look at the pitman arm and make sure it is rocking back and forth the same as the steering shaft. If it is not, the gearbox has wear.

Some of yall love to spend other peoples' money. Not one single damned one of you knows what's wrong with the OP's car, yet you are ready to spout off that everything is toast when you cannot even see it.

He may need everything. But to arbitrarily tell him that, without explaining to him how to inspect it himself and LEARN and FIND OUT on his own is about as stupid as it gets.

Well good morning RRR. Its an early a body. These cars are overlooked by most of the hotrod hobbyist's. They are primarily driven into the ground and neglected. The ones that are in pristine condition or are "hot rodded" generally don't end up in the hands of "entry level enthusiasts" as daily drivers. Every mopar I have ever owned would benefit from a simple front end rebuild. I would bet money that this guys car has stock worn out suspension components. I based my opinion on my own personal experience. Could he have a blown out ball joint? sloppy tie rod ends? Well yes he could. But....... the amount of slop he is describing sounds to me like the culmination of several sloppy joints. If your going to dig in and replace just the worst offenders and leave the other marginal joints in place you are simply changing the weakest link. These cars are pretty lack luster in steering feel even with all new bushings, ball joints and tie rods so if he changed one or two parts at a time it may have still felt "loose".

You did give the OP a very descriptive process of elimination to follow and I agree with it. In the end I still think its going to need a rebuild which these days is pretty inexpensive and common. Even a novice can do it with a service manual and the help of this forum.

To the original poster:

If you have any question about what a part is or looks like or where to find it let us know. no dumb questions here. I am the first to say that we all start somewhere. I have learned more on this forum then any other source. fire away with the questions.
 
To the original poster:

If you have any question about what a part is or looks like or where to find it let us know. no dumb questions here. I am the first to say that we all start somewhere. I have learned more on this forum then any other source. fire away with the questions.

I agree with younggun. Many on here will provide massive amounts of help and explanations. Not all, but many.
I recently purchased a 1975 A body and it is my first MOPAR. I am learning many things quickly. Not as quickly as some would like, but I am learning.

To the OP, Good Luck and enjoy.
I get smiles, waves, and thumbs up every time I take my Dart out and it makes me smile just to see it in the driveway when I get up in the morning.
What more could you ask?
 
This could be a real dumb question. But my 66 dart has some serious play when steering. Like several inches each way when I turn the steering wheel. However the power steering is fracking awesome. Turns easier than my new cars.
So what is the culprit ? And is it an easy fix? Are there any other fixes you would do at the same time? Like shocks?
I want to say that I have worn Tie Rods. But I don't really know what that means.

No question is a dumb question because everyone is a beginner at everything at some time in their life.
Where in LA are you? I'm in Torrance. If you are close I can show you the parts of what makes your Mopar special. I can turn you on to specialists or show you how to do something.

Doug
 
This could be a real dumb question. But my 66 dart has some serious play when steering. Like several inches each way when I turn the steering wheel. However the power steering is fracking awesome. Turns easier than my new cars.
So what is the culprit ? And is it an easy fix? Are there any other fixes you would do at the same time? Like shocks?
I want to say that I have worn Tie Rods. But I don't really know what that means.
The POS i bought had the steering box bolt to k member halfway unbolted.... some people do some stupid ****... if the car is new to you check ALL bolts EVERYWHERE....
 
No question is a dumb question because everyone is a beginner at everything at some time in their life.
Where in LA are you? I'm in Torrance. If you are close I can show you the parts of what makes your Mopar special. I can turn you on to specialists or show you how to do something.

Doug

now thats a nice mopar person.
 
How do you know? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

Do you have a working crystal ball? Can you see through the internet? Do you have mental telepathy? No way in the world can you KNOW that his ENTIRE front end needs rebuilding. No way, no how. It certainly MIGHT, but to arbitrarily arm chair a GUESS is irresponsible of you and to him.

gdizzle, you need to get the car on jack stands in the front and while looking under it as someone rocks the wheel back and forth from the inside, look for and loose suspension parts. Look at all the joints where the tie rods are connected both inner and outer. Look closely at the idler arm. Grab it and see if there is any vertical movement.

After that, lower the car back down. Jack each side up one at the time with the jack under the lower control arm with the tire about 4" off the ground. Place a long prybar under each tire and pry up hard. Look at the upper and lower ball joints and see if there is any vertical movement in them.

Closely inspect the upper and lower control arm bushings and see if the rubber is distorted. Check to see if there is play in the steering coupler, just in front of the firewall.

Look to see if there is any play in the steering gearbox as someone rocks the wheel back and forth. Look at the pitman arm and make sure it is rocking back and forth the same as the steering shaft. If it is not, the gearbox has wear.

Some of yall love to spend other peoples' money. Not one single damned one of you knows what's wrong with the OP's car, yet you are ready to spout off that everything is toast when you cannot even see it.

He may need everything. But to arbitrarily tell him that, without explaining to him how to inspect it himself and LEARN and FIND OUT on his own is about as stupid as it gets.

wow, great list on how to do.... you are just the mechanics mechanic.
 
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