needsaresto
Well-Known Member
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- Nov 13, 2004
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Lol,Doug knows first hand what the purists think of a gm part in a mopar...
Myself I'll run the hei conversion as well.
GM HEI on Mopar,Does it work?
- Thread starter 1BadDodge71
- Start date
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Lol,Doug knows first hand what the purists think of a gm part in a mopar...
Myself I'll run the hei conversion as well.
265Hemi
Member
If you have a HEI dizzy with the module built into the side (and no built in coil on the dizzy cap) you can replace the built in module.
Bosch is the brand, BIM = Bosch Ignition Module. 024 = the model.
As powerwagonpaul pointed out it is the Australian ( and European, I believe) equivelent of a LX-301 module.
The idea is to by a cheap Chinese HEI dizzy and replace the crap module with a better one like a BIM-024 or the LX-301.
Or as per the instruction on the page that powerwagonpaul shared you can run these module on vurtually any electronic dizzy including the Mopar one.
You can use any coil with it but for the best results you want a HEI coil (I use a Bosch HEC-716)
Then you increase your plug gap for bigger spark.
BIM-024's are great for high reving 6's. My friend runs 1 on his 440 powered drag car and I have used them on quite a few cars. Never had an issue with them at high revs.
Here's my set-up now.
Red cirle is the built in modul
Blue is the HEI coil
Green is the relay which feeds the coil and dizzy 12volts straight from the battery when the key is in the ignition position.
Its nice, compact and super cheap.
Rice Nuker
Let the Coal Roll!
Nice compact coil.
I have been reading on the BIM- unit. It appears to have excellent dwell and amperage management which should allow for smooth hot high rpm spark. I am wondering if the LX- unit behaves the same or if it is more crude with regards to dwell and amperage mgt, like the original GM HEI modules. I look at the accel and msd HEI "performance" units and they claim to manage dwell better but they are freaking expensive.
I have been reading on the BIM- unit. It appears to have excellent dwell and amperage management which should allow for smooth hot high rpm spark. I am wondering if the LX- unit behaves the same or if it is more crude with regards to dwell and amperage mgt, like the original GM HEI modules. I look at the accel and msd HEI "performance" units and they claim to manage dwell better but they are freaking expensive.
If you have a HEI dizzy with the module built into the side (and no built in coil on the dizzy cap) you can replace the built in module.
Bosch is the brand, BIM = Bosch Ignition Module. 024 = the model.
As powerwagonpaul pointed out it is the Australian ( and European, I believe) equivelent of a LX-301 module.
The idea is to by a cheap Chinese HEI dizzy and replace the crap module with a better one like a BIM-024 or the LX-301.
Or as per the instruction on the page that powerwagonpaul shared you can run these module on vurtually any electronic dizzy including the Mopar one.
You can use any coil with it but for the best results you want a HEI coil (I use a Bosch HEC-716)
Then you increase your plug gap for bigger spark.
BIM-024's are great for high reving 6's. My friend runs 1 on his 440 powered drag car and I have used them on quite a few cars. Never had an issue with them at high revs.
Here's my set-up now.
Red cirle is the built in modul
Blue is the HEI coil
Green is the relay which feeds the coil and dizzy 12volts straight from the battery when the key is in the ignition position.
Its nice, compact and super cheap.
Rice Nuker
Let the Coal Roll!
A few nice diagrams for HEI applications.
The points one shows the basic, then some more advanced variations such as fail over or manual switch over. If I had points I would just choose the basic config.
The points one shows the basic, then some more advanced variations such as fail over or manual switch over. If I had points I would just choose the basic config.
265Hemi
Member
Not sure if you guys can get Bosch products but they are great.
The BIM-024 was around $50 AUD and so was the coil. To put that into context a basic Mallory HEI coil is about $80 AUD.
The set up in the picture (Dizzy, new module and coil) was about $180 AUD.
That bosch module is not easy to come by in the US. What years / makes / models was it OEM on?
The GM part has not been used on a production car for more than 20 years now. No longer manufactured by the OEM tier 1 suppliers.
As for the "dwell management", hard to say how much is actually done without a lot of scope time.
What everybody seems to lose track of is the reason for the ballast resistor in the coil circuit of a Kettering ignition. Kettering designed that ignition in the era of 6 volt cars. During cranking, the voltage takes a huge drop.
The ballast resistor allows the use of a lower voltage coil. A bypass circuit to the coil provides a higher voltage during cranking, to make up for the voltage drop during cranking. The resistor in series with the coil keeps the voltage down when running. On a 12v system you really have about an 8v coil.
Transistor switched ignitions like the mopar box or the gm module etc. simply replace the points with something that operates faster. Faster is good. Closing the circuit as soon as the spark is over means the coil begins charging for the next spark sooner. This time is known as the "Dwell Angle" which represents the angle of distributor rotation that the points are closed.
Dwell angles were always similar in V8's with points, because the lobe count is the same. The point gap changes that a little, but only a few degrees. Adding a transistor switch to things allows the coil to begin charging much sooner after spark delivery. This is important at high RPM. The reason that dual points were used for high performance applications - to extend coil charge times at high RPM's.
Over the past 20 years, OEM ignitions have added significant coil volume / iron. Coil packs, Coil on Plug, etc. COP systems have 8 times longer to charge for firing. Pack systems 2 to 4 times as long. Automakers know they need more spark. Their choice was more coils, or CDI. They went to more electronics, and eliminated the distributor.
We are still dealing with a distributor in our V8's. One coil. Any sort of transistor switched ignition is an improvement. Pertronix, Velleman, GM modules, Mopar OEM systems are all good. Use a high quality coil. If you switch to an OEM E-core from some other car, pay attention to the need for (or lack of) a ballast resistor.
CDI still beats a transistor switch. Running a true CDI like an MSD or others will give you the most spark. Multiple sparks are great, but not necessary if you have a good hot single spark. Yeah, I know it is a couple hundred bucks.
B.
The GM part has not been used on a production car for more than 20 years now. No longer manufactured by the OEM tier 1 suppliers.
As for the "dwell management", hard to say how much is actually done without a lot of scope time.
What everybody seems to lose track of is the reason for the ballast resistor in the coil circuit of a Kettering ignition. Kettering designed that ignition in the era of 6 volt cars. During cranking, the voltage takes a huge drop.
The ballast resistor allows the use of a lower voltage coil. A bypass circuit to the coil provides a higher voltage during cranking, to make up for the voltage drop during cranking. The resistor in series with the coil keeps the voltage down when running. On a 12v system you really have about an 8v coil.
Transistor switched ignitions like the mopar box or the gm module etc. simply replace the points with something that operates faster. Faster is good. Closing the circuit as soon as the spark is over means the coil begins charging for the next spark sooner. This time is known as the "Dwell Angle" which represents the angle of distributor rotation that the points are closed.
Dwell angles were always similar in V8's with points, because the lobe count is the same. The point gap changes that a little, but only a few degrees. Adding a transistor switch to things allows the coil to begin charging much sooner after spark delivery. This is important at high RPM. The reason that dual points were used for high performance applications - to extend coil charge times at high RPM's.
Over the past 20 years, OEM ignitions have added significant coil volume / iron. Coil packs, Coil on Plug, etc. COP systems have 8 times longer to charge for firing. Pack systems 2 to 4 times as long. Automakers know they need more spark. Their choice was more coils, or CDI. They went to more electronics, and eliminated the distributor.
We are still dealing with a distributor in our V8's. One coil. Any sort of transistor switched ignition is an improvement. Pertronix, Velleman, GM modules, Mopar OEM systems are all good. Use a high quality coil. If you switch to an OEM E-core from some other car, pay attention to the need for (or lack of) a ballast resistor.
CDI still beats a transistor switch. Running a true CDI like an MSD or others will give you the most spark. Multiple sparks are great, but not necessary if you have a good hot single spark. Yeah, I know it is a couple hundred bucks.
B.
hefty lefty
Member
I did the HEI module thing just because I carry a spare and they are a lot smaller, plus if you need one in a small town the Mopar box is a wait. The new aftermarket Mopar replacement is a Chicom made junker, if real US made ones were still common I might not have done it.
I mounted mine on a heatsink from a dead car stereo amp.
I mounted mine on a heatsink from a dead car stereo amp.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
hefty lefty
Member
It's a good thing you weren't around during WWII. I mean, WAS IT OVER WHEN THE GERMANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOR?????
:angry4:
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
Busted a gut and had to clean off the computer screen on that one!!!
I thought I must have been issued the wrong history book in school when I read that one. Thankfully ole 67 saved the day.
Sir Thomas
Well-Known Member
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
lol...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI"]Animal House: Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor - YouTube[/ame]
hefty lefty
Member
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
As Ricky Ricardo said "That splains it..." Hit the videos instead of the text books.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_CgPsGY5Mw"]French Model Commercial (CC) Full-length - YouTube[/ame]
HotLines
Realist - Free Thinker
I wonder why it is that my GM - HEI eliminated the Mopar ballast resister, coil and control box and what have you and it still runs?
Oh I know, it's magic
Oh I know, it's magic
HotLines
Realist - Free Thinker
And I also love MSD because most all of it's patents are held by Dr.Christopher Jacobs
Rice Nuker
Let the Coal Roll!
I have read that any coil or coil + ballast operating above about .5 ohms decreases the performance of the HEI module. The module will not feed full current to a load above about .5 ohms. So, its best to get a GM coil designed to run on the version HEI module you have or get an equivalent resistance unit. Plus running correct coil eliminates ballast anyway. So, other coils with higher resistance will work but will not operate at full current, limiting their output power at high rpm.
hefty lefty
Member
The basic MSD patent has surely run out by now.
It is not very well known but several OEM systems had multiple spark designed into them. In fact, the original Model T Ford system was a form of multiple spark.
Multiple spark is only useful at low and medium RPM because at high RPM there is no time for multiple sparking from the start of ignition to the full combustion of the cylinder products.
The best idea Chrysler ever had for ignition improvement was on the original 426 Hemi: It had two of them. Because of the build cost and awkward distributor drive arrangement they never put that on the street engines. The new "Hemi" has twin plugs.
kiss
Well-Known Member
Why bother with that overpriced module? There's several others that are way cheaper and work just as good. You can even find them at your local autoparts store if you need them that quickly.
Amazon.com: ACDelco D1906 Professional Ignition Control Module: Automotive
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
As "KISS" said...........
Tell us more about just what you are doing? Is this a Skip White dist "ready to run" unit? or what?
That's not at all what I was asking..... My dad has a 33 Ford tudor sedan with a 11:1 edelbrock aluminum head dual quad 350. He apparently decided to try to save some money on the distributor and bought a Chinese HEI unit that uses the BIM024 style HEI ignition module. Well he was taking it on his longest trip to date with this combination and he lost ignition after getting gas 1 1/2 hours into a 2 1/2 hour trip to a car show. It's now sitting on my car trailer in my yard and it'll stay there until the new ignition module is dropped off on August 2nd.
I have a 72 Duster and have been using this forum. I searched google for BIM024 and this thread popped up so I thought I'd ask.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the explanation but that is EXACTLY what I was asking. You keep calling this an HEI but that is NOT what it is. This is a proprietary module. I've been told it's popular "down under" as it evidently evolved in Holden vehicles. If that distributor is what you have (same as Skip White by the way) then the BM series module, so far as I know, is what you want.
Found one from a vendor at a car show yesterday. It was the only one he had, but he sold that style of distributor as well. No local parts houses had it though. It's not proprietary, it's a Holden part that was originally made by Bosch.
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