Goodbye Crane Flat Tappet. I hardly knew ye.

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younggun2.0 said:
what a decent regular oil cost? $4-5 a qt.? penn grade and such are 7-8 bucks. so if you have a 7 qt pan your talking $21 bucks more an oil change. How often do you change oil? every 6 months for me. my car see's less then 1500 miles a year. so thats like $42 a yr. Whats a roller cam and lifter set cost? $500-800? just food for thought. not trashing anyone or there thinking. just debating here. NO HARD FEELINGS.

Here is my thinking.........

Our engines were designed in a different time. They used an oil from that generation. Today's engines have evolved and have different requirements, thus a different oil. That is why I insist on using an oil formulated for my dinosaur engine.
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That's always made sense to me too...
 
Thank you. At least one person understands.


73AbodEE said:
obviously , it does matter or these people wouldn't be telling you it does.









you are the one that is picking this fight. you really should grow a pair instead of talking out your ***





no body was forcing anything down any bodies throat , if this were YellowBullet , I would tell you what should be forced down your throat. look at all the replies that were basically ignored. RRR was extremely polite and helpful with his first 2 replies and the OP still asked the same question again as if everybody were just talking out their asses. it gets really ******* old when people try to help people and they are just blown off like they are just posting BS. then you have 7 people saying the same thing and the OP still doesn't believe.



no its not that easy. buckle up for the long haul bud , you are just looking for it.
the way I see it , the OP has been told 12 times that a zinc rich oil is pretty much paramount in these old engines. nobody is going away , I can promise you that.
you obviously cant see the help that rusty offers around here. look at his "thank yous". yea he can be abrasive sometimes , but we all can including me , but when people just ignore the help being offered and don't like what they read and chalk it up as bullshit it gets really annoying.
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You know, RRR can be a *** on here....but so can I, but you what? Hes right! It DOES get frustrating trying to help people when they wont listen, I know EXACTLY how he feels.
 
I see the help he offers.
Thanks for your advice.
Many other people were right as well, none of them came back with a snarky, condescending response. Some people may require things to be laid out in different terms than others. RRR seems to have little patience for people that might not agree or understand as clearly as he expects. This is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby for some people.
Have a good day.
 
Mopar to ya said:
I'm just going to throw this out there, not to hijack this thread. I bought five or six cases of 20W50 Valvoline VR1 synthetic oil when O'reilly closed it out. I don't use it, but figured someone would. I paid $3.29 a quart and will sell it for that. I personally use Amsoil Zrod in 20W50 in my 408. Flat tappets should use high zinc at all times from what I have read.
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I haven't found the PPM ratings for zinc for VR1 but I see, even though it is a synthetic, it is advertised as "High zinc/phosphorus for extreme anti-wear, including flat tappets". Both 10/30 and 20/50. http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/8 If it wasn't for the special hassle to ship petroleum products via UPS and Fed Ex I would have some old car oil refined at my local oil refinery and sell it to you guys. What ever weight you need, dino, semi synthetic, or full synthetic. If we need 1200 ppm then that's what I would bottle. I need to check it out. It could be a semi retirement job for me. LOL
 
replicaracer43 said:
You know, RRR can be a *** on here.....
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but YOU know what?

I'll be the FIRST to agree with you there. lol Thanks, for all that. It's much appreciated.

It's not about forcing anything down anyone's throat. It's not about being right. I couldn't care less about all that.

I am on here a LOT because I am limited in what I can physically do. This gives me something to do. Before I got hurt, I always had someone's car or truck here doing work to help them.....usually real cheap or even for free. I love helping people that much. So when I see somebody on here with a problem I like trying to help, yet some see it as some kinda crime against humanity.

And like Lance said (and thank you) it gets tiresome when people completely ignore good advice and keep asking the same question as if you're just talkin outta your butt.

But like I've said before, this hobby has never been for the faint of heart, pantywaste, pencil pusher types. You get your feelins hurt easy? Might wanna go to the three o'clock luncheon with mama and the gals.

This hobby is for car guys that are badass and act like it. We're a special breed that can call each other assholes, homos, queerbait, sissy, and on and on and still be friends at the end of the day.

I got sent across town when I was 12 years old to pick up a skyhook. I drove the company wrecker. I had been drivin it over a year already. When I got there, I asked for a skyhook. Everybody started bustin out laughin tellin me how stupid I was and what a sissy I was. It was funny, because once I understood a skyhook was a hoist you sling up around a cloud to pull an engine when there are no trees around, I was laughin too.

The internet sucks ball at conveying tone of voice. If the first thing you wanna do is look for a way to get offended, there is something seriously wrong with YOU to begin with. Honestly.
 
Now maybe we can get this back on topic if all the prima donnas have their feelins fixed.


I sent this in a PM to another member that I was having a discussion with. I wasn't going to post it here, but now I think it is ripe for discussion. This is my take on synthetics and I stick by it.

IMHO, synthetics are not good for flat tappets. Here's what I base that on.

Years ago.....about 1980 or so, synthetics were just coming on the scene. We went to several oil seminars put on by Quaker State. They showed us several examples of the differences in the flow of oil from synthetic to carbon based.

Even the same weight, the synthetic oil flowed so much better than the carbon based oil that it would run off parts leaving way less oil film in a matter of minutes. Makes you wonder how much runs off after several days. Or over a winter.

Without an oil film, a flat tappet cam will die prematurely, zinc or no zinc.

I never have been a proponent of synthetics and flat tappets for that reason.

Hell, you want proof? Simple enough. It's a common fact that synthetics will find a leak where carbon based oils will not. THAT is how well they flow.

That's too good, if you ask me. For a roller engine, I think it's a little different. But for a flat tappet, I think carbon based is best. That's my opinion and I am stickin to it.

Yes, the very early 1980s was a long time ago, BUT the flow of synthetics has not changed....in fact, it has gotten better. You can test it for yourself. Don't take my word for it. Dump some synthetic oil on a metal part. See how quickly it takes for pretty much all of it to run off. Do the same with carbon based oil. You'll see for yourself.

Believe what you want, but that's my opinion and I stand by it.
 
RJK3 said:
I see the help he offers.
Thanks for your advice.
Many other people were right as well, none of them came back with a snarky, condescending response. Some people may require things to be laid out in different terms than others. RRR seems to have little patience for people that might not agree or understand as clearly as he expects. This is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby for some people.
Have a good day.
Click to expand...

look at this way , if you pulled up in my driveway , and we both heard your 340 or whatever clanking and banging around pouring smoke , and you stepped out of your car and said "I think its blown the F^&k up !!!" and I replied with "YOU THINK ???" we would both be standing there laughing at the blatant obviousness , outside of the fact that its broke. you try and type that **** and see how it LOOKS ? people get so bent over on sarcasm is sickening. if we were all in a garage standing around talking **** about a broken car , it would be non stop wise cracks and laughter the entire time while enjoying an ice cold beverage. people take this internet at face value instead of thinking about it as standing around bullshitting like we do.
 
73AbodEE said:
look at this way , if you pulled up in my driveway , and we both heard your 340 or whatever clanking and banging around pouring smoke , and you stepped out of your car and said "I think its blown the F^&k up !!!" and I replied with "YOU THINK ???" we would both be standing there laughing at the blatant obviousness , outside of the fact that its broke. you try and type that **** and see how it LOOKS ? people get so bent over on sarcasm is sickening. if we were all in a garage standing around talking **** about a broken car , it would be non stop wise cracks and laughter the entire time while enjoying an ice cold beverage. people take this internet at face value instead of thinking about it as standing around bullshitting like we do.
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This ^^^^^ is exactly what I am talking about. Spot on, 100%.
 
I see your point and agree.
Ima go try and figure out what the hell that noise coming from under my hood....prolly a Zinc deficiency ;)
 
RustyRatRod said:
Now maybe we can get this back on topic if all the prima donnas have their feelins fixed.


I sent this in a PM to another member that I was having a discussion with. I wasn't going to post it here, but now I think it is ripe for discussion. This is my take on synthetics and I stick by it.

IMHO, synthetics are not good for flat tappets. Here's what I base that on.

Years ago.....about 1980 or so, synthetics were just coming on the scene. We went to several oil seminars put on by Quaker State. They showed us several examples of the differences in the flow of oil from synthetic to carbon based.

Even the same weight, the synthetic oil flowed so much better than the carbon based oil that it would run off parts leaving way less oil film in a matter of minutes. Makes you wonder how much runs off after several days. Or over a winter.

Without an oil film, a flat tappet cam will die prematurely, zinc or no zinc.

I never have been a proponent of synthetics and flat tappets for that reason.

Hell, you want proof? Simple enough. It's a common fact that synthetics will find a leak where carbon based oils will not. THAT is how well they flow.

That's too good, if you ask me. For a roller engine, I think it's a little different. But for a flat tappet, I think carbon based is best. That's my opinion and I am stickin to it.

Yes, the very early 1980s was a long time ago, BUT the flow of synthetics has not changed....in fact, it has gotten better. You can test it for yourself. Don't take my word for it. Dump some synthetic oil on a metal part. See how quickly it takes for pretty much all of it to run off. Do the same with carbon based oil. You'll see for yourself.

Believe what you want, but that's my opinion and I stand by it.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. Any visual test would be the equivilent of typing blood by looking at it. The differences are on a molecular level... And synthetics have come a very long way since the 80s... If I was an Dino oil guy, I'd say they suck too. But supercars run well on it, and they are very well tested on tracks all over the world in pretty much everything that takes a lubricant. I don't run them in everything because of the expense. But in my cars that raced, the rears and engines always had synthetic once they were broken in. the **** works - it's just a lot to be paying $15-20/qt...lol.

...and I draw the line at queerbait ya bastard.
 
We just add a bottle of ZDDP from the parts store on every oil change and no problems.

Usually less than $10 per bottle. Always keep at least one extra one handy.

Rislone%20ZDDP_zpsthn7lnbk.jpg
Lucas%20ZDDP_zpsfc0ikrwz.jpg
......
zddplus-product%20c_zpsftjwkt6n.png
 
moper said:
I don't agree. Any visual test would be the equivilent of typing blood by looking at it. The differences are on a molecular level... And synthetics have come a very long way since the 80s... If I was an Dino oil guy, I'd say they suck too. But supercars run well on it, and they are very well tested on tracks all over the world in pretty much everything that takes a lubricant. I don't run them in everything because of the expense. But in my cars that raced, the rears and engines always had synthetic once they were broken in. the **** works - it's just a lot to be paying $15-20/qt...lol.

...and I draw the line at queerbait ya bastard.
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LOL

And that's cool. We can disagree. One thing is for sure.....synthetic DOES outflow conventional by leaps and bounds. That cannot be denied. I still say synthetics are best suited for rollers. And the next roller engine I build will have synthetic.

You sissy. lol
 
73AbodEE said:
.....it gets really ******* old when people try to help people and they are just blown off like they are just posting BS. then you have 7 people saying the same thing and the OP still doesn't believe.
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Not choosing sides here, but one of the problems with forums, and the internet in general is that everyone is a keyboard commando and throws opinions around like a baseball in the bullpen.
Many of the old-timers (hell, I'M an old-timer and still ask advice!) here I have learned to respect and take their word as truth, while some may be just as knowledgeable but maybe I don't know them or their experience.
Others just parrot what the previous poster said in order to appear intelligent or knowledgeable....jumping on the bandwagon, so to speak.
Still others have no clue whatsoever but feel inclined to throw in their two cents whether it's wanted or not, and whether it's helpful or not.
Some just post to tear down or belittle the OP as if he's a retard for asking the question in the first place.
So, please bear this in mind when you see a poster asking the same question, or wanting more responses than the initial few. I do it myself sometimes.In fact, on my current build, I am questioning the advice of my machine shop/engine build adviser because while he is extremely intelligent and wise (and experienced), I don't think he knows small Mopars as well as some of you...or even as much as myself at times.
My advice on this is; if the OP of a thread doesn't take your particular response as gospel, don't sweat it, don't get aggravated, don't be offended. He or she probably doesn't feel the question has been answered in his or her own mind and may not recognize you or your expertise. It's their thread, their question, so leave your comments to stand on their own merit and move on...don't worry; be happy!:D
Peace.
 
Yes! Thank you! Just move on!
Don't take everything so damn personal!
Be the self proclaimed "badass" and go on to the next "badass" opportunity.
RRR, sorry to hear of your limitations that keep you from doing the things that you are obviously passionate about, that sucks for sure. I'm starting to see my own limitations as well and it's a tough reality to accept. That said, we're all here for our love for cars. Some may arrive in a panic, trying to figure out what the hell just happened, others may just be lurking about....looking at a little bit of everything, just to pass the time.
 
Dirty Harry once said...A Man has to know his limitations..........
 
He also said:
When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher knife and a hard-on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross.
 
RJK3 said:
He also said:
When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher knife and a hard-on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross.
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You sure that wasn't Hairy-Dirty?
 
^^lol^^

Side note...hey CaptainKirk, do you ever make it over to Cordova? I pretty much grew up there at the track. My father still runs there as well as my daughter. If you make it over this year, stop by and shoot the **** with my pops, he's an old school Mopar guy, he's got a white 67' Dart he runs nostalgia with, and 2 71' Dusters, one Sassy Grass green and one black.
Kofron Racing on the rear quarters. He's still out tearing it up at 72!
 
RJK3 said:
He also said:
When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher knife and a hard-on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross.
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Yes - I was. It was a big misunderstanding. :D
 
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